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foreign

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next up we have Peter Hall Peter is a

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senior software engineering manager at

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Expedia group he's been a software

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engineer for 20 years and in that time

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has written software to allow people

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with vision impaired impairments to vote

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secretly ensure to steady supply of

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croissants and use lasers to send people

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to places with chainsaws

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among many projects his professional

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experience is mostly with Java but and

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he prefers python for personal Projects

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please welcome Peter

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thank you Jacinda

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I begin today by acknowledging The

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Gardener people the traditional

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custodians of the land on which we have

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gathered and pay my respects to their

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Elders past and present I extend that

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respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait

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Islander people here today

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this artwork was commissioned by Expedia

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group as part of our reconciliation

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action plan and it was made by Charmin

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mambola of mumbulla creative who was a

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Garner and naronga woman

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um and so I'm sort of glad to be

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presenting art made by a gardener woman

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on garana land

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I have two questions for uh everybody

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and my first question is

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do you work in a team and like I can see

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a few hands everybody works in a team

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it's very common

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um you know any group that is working

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together on the same goal or towards the

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same goal is a team they don't have to

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be doing the same task you could have

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you know a developer a designer and a

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tester might be a team because they're

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all working on the same piece of

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software

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my second question for you

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does someone care about your output

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um

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you know

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if you work in a team professionally

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your boss probably cares about your

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output but if you're

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you know a team that's a sports team

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maybe it's just the members of the team

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that really care about winning that you

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know it would be okay if you didn't win

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your um

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your uh you know Cricket competition

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some teams their output's not what's

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important you know social groups like

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book clubs you know sure there's a book

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to you read but nobody Minds if you

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don't read the book right

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um

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they don't need to worry about this talk

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so uh

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if you do work in a team and somebody

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cares about your output

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then this talk is for you

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so the problem with teams is that

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things can go wrong when you work in a

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team

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um

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there's a lot of questions that you need

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to be able to answer like do you know

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what to do and when I say you I mean

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both you individually and you

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collectively as a team like do you know

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what to do yourself and does your whole

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team know what to do

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and think that's the same thing because

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maybe some of your team have a different

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idea to other members of video maybe

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some of your team are saying yeah we're

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doing this because it makes us a lot of

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money and the other members of your team

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are saying yeah we're doing this because

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it helps people go places or transition

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us to renewable energy or any of the

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other wonderful talks that we've heard

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this pipe on like there's been a lot of

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things that teams are doing

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um you know do you know why you're doing

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it do you do you have good tools do you

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know how to use it

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is there conflict in your team people

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don't always get along it's it's

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you know we don't like it but it does

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happen

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so with all of these problems

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you could be doing better

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if only you knew how

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hi my name's Peter and I'm here to tell

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you about retrospectives uh

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retrospectives are a tool for

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um helping you solve some of those

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problems of things that can go wrong in

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teams they're not a silver bullet but

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they are a tool in the tool belt

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um they'll help I'm a senior engineering

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manager at Expedia group I've worked in

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tech for uh 20 years as you might have

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heard in my bio for the last few years

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I've been a manager so I'm sort of

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responsible for keeping a team pointed

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in the right direction and making sure

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everyone's getting along and

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that's what I do so what is a

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retrospective

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so

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retrospective I've put it here as a team

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meeting to discuss how the team operates

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and how the team could improve

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um

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I use retro and retrospective

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interchangeably they mean the same thing

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retro is just short for retrospective

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I'm Australian it's what we do

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so I'm just gonna today I'll run us

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through how I run a retro some digital

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tools to help

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run Retros I'll do a quick recap at the

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end and hopefully have time for some

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questions

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so uh how I run a retro

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um it's a fun place to be

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and

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I'm talking about how I run a retro it's

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not the only way to run a retro there's

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many competing ideas about how to run a

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retro some people like

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very frequent very short Retros some

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people like to let them go wait a long

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time and then do a really big one

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um personally I find a 90 minute retro

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is a good length of time and for that

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length of time probably every six weeks

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you don't want to do a 90 minute meeting

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every week for a retro even every two

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weeks for that long

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um

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but there's a few steps you can follow

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if you would like to run a retro the

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same way I run a retro

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the first thing you do is prepare

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get ready

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book a room

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invite your team gather supplies um the

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main suppliers you would need would be

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sticky notes pens to write on them

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um

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you know putting sticky notes on a wall

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happens a lot in a retro

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um

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I mentioned 90 minutes as being a good

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length of time to book a room for

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um

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60 Minutes is sort of it feels crowded

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and you're having to rush at the end 30

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minutes has never once been enough

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so you know allow enough time

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once you've done that

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you can gather

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bring your people to the room

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welcome them

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remind them what they're here for we're

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here to have a retrospective we are

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going to talk about how things are going

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we're going to look for ways to improve

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um

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recap the actions from the last retro

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you know say hey we've done this before

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you know last time we decided to do some

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things here's how that worked out

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um that last step recap actions from the

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last restaurant I didn't used to do that

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and then one time in a retro people said

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here's an action we'd like could you do

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a recap at the start because because we

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know wait to see if these actions that

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we've come up with have been followed up

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on

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and I'm like that's a great idea so

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retro it's self-improving right you can

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use the Retro to improve the Retro as

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well as improving everything else that

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you're doing

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so once you get everybody together

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it's time to brainstorm

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just ask everyone

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thought things went well

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what things not as good

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is there anything else we need to talk

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about that you wouldn't necessarily call

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good or bad right there's

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there's

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um you know write these things down on a

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sticky note just one thing on each note

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put them up on the wall

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um not having a discussion yet this is

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really just getting ideas out where

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people can see them not sort of debating

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the merits of those ideas yet

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um this sort of what's good what's bad

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what else do we need to talk about

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that's the way I

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um like to use categories but there's

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other options as well some people call

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it The Good The Bad and The Ugly

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uh some people call it stop start and

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keep

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um

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there's options

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do what works for you

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um anyhow 10 or 15 minutes it takes and

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usually that's enough time it's

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generally pretty obvious when you're

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ready to move on people will have

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stopped writing and started sort of

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reading what everyone else has put up

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instead and when you get to the point

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where no one seems to be frantically

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scribbling and putting things on the

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wall

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time to move on to the next phase

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so when you do this brainstorm you tend

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to get

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a big wall

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full of things

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sticky notes everywhere

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you can't have an in-depth discussion

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about every single thing your team has

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thought of in 90 minutes in fact you

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probably couldn't do it in like two

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weeks

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so you need a way to decide which of

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these things are so important but we

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want to address them in our 90 minutes

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voting is a great way to do that let the

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people decide

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so

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voting's pretty quick five minutes of

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your retro Maybe

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um

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you can sort of

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hmm

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um

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yeah I found you know just get people to

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take their pen up put a mark on a on

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which of those cards right because

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when you say what things are good lately

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there'll be things that they're good

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everybody agrees they're good

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but you don't need to have a full

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in-depth discussion right when I say hey

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we got a new member join our team and

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that's great I'll put it in the good

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column

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um and people say yeah that is great

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but don't vote for that right where you

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don't need to have a discussion about

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the fact that someone has joined our

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team everybody already acknowledges it's

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good

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there's no actions that come from that

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so when you're voting you're voting for

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what needs to be discussed not what do I

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agree with also good thing to remind

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your teams

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remind your team off there

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once the votes are in

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now is the time for discussion

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one Topic at a time

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most important topic first which is the

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most important topic

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it's the one with the most votes

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00:09:57,540 --> 00:10:02,640
so go grab grab the grab the ones with

286
00:10:00,180 --> 00:10:05,339
the most votes pick a threshold for

287
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votes to decide

288
00:10:05,339 --> 00:10:08,399
you know how many topics you're going to

289
00:10:06,660 --> 00:10:11,220
talk today you've probably got enough

290
00:10:08,399 --> 00:10:13,860
time to get through four cards five

291
00:10:11,220 --> 00:10:15,420
cards so you know if you find all right

292
00:10:13,860 --> 00:10:18,240
this one got

293
00:10:15,420 --> 00:10:19,800
five votes these three got four votes

294
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,120
the next thing got three votes and say

295
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,380
all right let's do that first one and

296
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,120
the next three Four's enough and then

297
00:10:22,380 --> 00:10:25,260
we've got a neat threshold of if you've

298
00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,700
got more than four votes we'll talk

299
00:10:25,260 --> 00:10:27,839
about you

300
00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:30,300
um

301
00:10:27,839 --> 00:10:32,220
and you as the as the Retro organizer

302
00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:33,779
are also going to be facilitating

303
00:10:32,220 --> 00:10:35,820
discussion

304
00:10:33,779 --> 00:10:38,399
um make sure people get a tone to speak

305
00:10:35,820 --> 00:10:40,080
right the some people really like to

306
00:10:38,399 --> 00:10:42,360
talk in a meeting some people tend to be

307
00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,860
a bit quiet and reserved um

308
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,899
but being a naturally quiet person

309
00:10:43,860 --> 00:10:47,339
doesn't mean your ideas aren't valuable

310
00:10:45,899 --> 00:10:49,740
so

311
00:10:47,339 --> 00:10:51,480
so you know you as the organizer

312
00:10:49,740 --> 00:10:54,060
probably also the facilitator you could

313
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,220
nominate someone else to facilitate

314
00:10:54,060 --> 00:10:57,660
um keep an eye out on who's talking make

315
00:10:56,220 --> 00:10:59,700
sure that people who look like they want

316
00:10:57,660 --> 00:11:01,380
to talk but haven't quite felt

317
00:10:59,700 --> 00:11:03,060
comfortable jumping in um get a chance

318
00:11:01,380 --> 00:11:03,839
to

319
00:11:03,060 --> 00:11:06,240
um

320
00:11:03,839 --> 00:11:08,040
and just sort of and keep notes you know

321
00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:09,660
write things down like

322
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,160
you don't need a record of who said what

323
00:11:09,660 --> 00:11:12,600
but you do need a record of what got

324
00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,560
said

325
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,180
um

326
00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:17,100
because these are these are important

327
00:11:15,180 --> 00:11:19,740
topics right your team has voted and

328
00:11:17,100 --> 00:11:21,120
decided and it's been Democratic you you

329
00:11:19,740 --> 00:11:22,800
know that these are the things that

330
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,760
matter to you

331
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,760
you better write that down

332
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:32,579
now in that discussion

333
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,200
you're not

334
00:11:32,579 --> 00:11:37,200
um

335
00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:39,180
coming up with you're not deciding on a

336
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,220
solution yet right at the moment people

337
00:11:39,180 --> 00:11:42,660
will propose solutions to things and you

338
00:11:41,220 --> 00:11:44,459
can write them down

339
00:11:42,660 --> 00:11:45,660
you're not agreeing that yes that's

340
00:11:44,459 --> 00:11:47,279
definitely what we're going to do here

341
00:11:45,660 --> 00:11:48,480
you're just sort of making sure people

342
00:11:47,279 --> 00:11:51,300
have

343
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:53,100
explained what the problem is you're you

344
00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:54,360
everybody who shares the same idea about

345
00:11:53,100 --> 00:11:55,800
the problem are there different views

346
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,779
just some people say oh actually I've

347
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,640
never noticed that while other people

348
00:11:57,779 --> 00:12:01,200
are saying oh that's a huge problem I

349
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:03,120
say that all the time

350
00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,860
um the discussion draws that out and

351
00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,480
gives you a good sense for

352
00:12:04,860 --> 00:12:09,180
which of the things that really matter

353
00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,899
you know who is this important to

354
00:12:09,180 --> 00:12:11,940
um

355
00:12:09,899 --> 00:12:13,320
is my idea of what the problem is from

356
00:12:11,940 --> 00:12:15,420
the words on the sticky note actually

357
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:17,160
match what comes out when I give people

358
00:12:15,420 --> 00:12:20,060
you know longer to explain and they can

359
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:20,060
speak a few sentences

360
00:12:20,399 --> 00:12:25,200
and after that discussion

361
00:12:22,560 --> 00:12:26,880
here one card at a time work your way

362
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,740
through all of them

363
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,600
then it's time to decide what to do

364
00:12:28,740 --> 00:12:32,519
right we don't decide during the

365
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,760
discussion because sometimes we find hey

366
00:12:32,519 --> 00:12:37,380
when we were talking about this card

367
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,120
it's kind of relevant to this earlier

368
00:12:37,380 --> 00:12:40,380
card as well and if we just decided what

369
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,180
to do about that card when we were

370
00:12:40,380 --> 00:12:44,160
talking about it we'd have missed things

371
00:12:42,180 --> 00:12:46,440
that we sort of got to two cards later

372
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,420
so this is why decide is a separate step

373
00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:51,839
to discuss

374
00:12:48,420 --> 00:12:53,639
so have your have your decision say okay

375
00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:55,860
we talked about

376
00:12:53,639 --> 00:12:59,220
this thing that's wrong

377
00:12:55,860 --> 00:13:01,019
here's some of the ideas we've proposed

378
00:12:59,220 --> 00:13:03,720
what are we going to do

379
00:13:01,019 --> 00:13:07,260
who's going to be responsible

380
00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:11,579
um you know are there things we need to

381
00:13:07,260 --> 00:13:13,019
not do keep doing do differently

382
00:13:11,579 --> 00:13:15,060
you can

383
00:13:13,019 --> 00:13:17,459
and at this point you can't sort of blur

384
00:13:15,060 --> 00:13:19,380
together a bit because often there'll be

385
00:13:17,459 --> 00:13:20,880
two cards that are related to each other

386
00:13:19,380 --> 00:13:24,180
and you're

387
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,860
so you might you don't necessarily get

388
00:13:24,180 --> 00:13:27,120
one action to address each card you

389
00:13:25,860 --> 00:13:28,620
might find there's one action that

390
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,720
addresses two cards or you might decide

391
00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:31,680
that actually after we had that

392
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,320
discussion

393
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:36,660
there's nothing we need to do it's not

394
00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,860
as big of a problem we thought or we

395
00:13:36,660 --> 00:13:40,260
think that problem will go away by

396
00:13:37,860 --> 00:13:42,959
itself without us having to do anything

397
00:13:40,260 --> 00:13:44,459
um so don't try to be a like all right

398
00:13:42,959 --> 00:13:45,779
discard what do we do this card what do

399
00:13:44,459 --> 00:13:47,339
we do just so yeah all right now that

400
00:13:45,779 --> 00:13:48,959
we've had all these discussions what

401
00:13:47,339 --> 00:13:50,339
things do we need to do like going back

402
00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:51,600
through the cards can help to sort of

403
00:13:50,339 --> 00:13:53,760
prompt people to make sure things don't

404
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,440
get um forgotten

405
00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,740
but it's not going to be one card one

406
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,740
action

407
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:04,380
um so this is probably the bulk of your

408
00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,519
retrospective meeting this is about 30

409
00:14:04,380 --> 00:14:07,139
minutes

410
00:14:05,519 --> 00:14:08,700
um this is why you can't do a 30 minute

411
00:14:07,139 --> 00:14:10,139
retrospective is because you need 30

412
00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:11,880
minutes just to decide what you're going

413
00:14:10,139 --> 00:14:14,160
to do after you've had the discussion

414
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:16,700
about what um what things need

415
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,700
addressing

416
00:14:17,399 --> 00:14:21,360
when you finish deciding

417
00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:23,519
conclude wrap it up

418
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,920
do a quick recap you know tell people

419
00:14:23,519 --> 00:14:27,660
okay we discuss these things we decided

420
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,519
on these things

421
00:14:27,660 --> 00:14:31,860
when should we have the next next retro

422
00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:33,779
who's going to organize it

423
00:14:31,860 --> 00:14:36,120
um do we have it in six weeks do we

424
00:14:33,779 --> 00:14:37,740
decide oh actually these problems are

425
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,480
big and urgent we need to have a sooner

426
00:14:37,740 --> 00:14:40,620
one do we decide actually we can maybe

427
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,839
we can let it close for a little bit

428
00:14:40,620 --> 00:14:45,180
longer maybe maybe six weeks is too soon

429
00:14:42,839 --> 00:14:47,279
uh depends on your team depends on your

430
00:14:45,180 --> 00:14:48,240
environment what you're doing

431
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:50,579
um

432
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,800
thank you to everyone thank everyone for

433
00:14:50,579 --> 00:14:54,720
coming to your retro yo

434
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,220
it's good to have people there

435
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,019
um it's good to have people contributing

436
00:14:56,220 --> 00:14:59,639
to the discussion

437
00:14:58,019 --> 00:15:01,500
make sure they know that you're glad

438
00:14:59,639 --> 00:15:03,740
that they turned up

439
00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:06,480
and afterwards send out the minutes

440
00:15:03,740 --> 00:15:08,639
you've taken a lot of notes there's been

441
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:10,440
a lot of discussion a lot of writing

442
00:15:08,639 --> 00:15:12,899
send it out afterwards not the full

443
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:16,079
discussion notes that's not needed by

444
00:15:12,899 --> 00:15:16,860
the entire team but what people do need

445
00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:19,139
is

446
00:15:16,860 --> 00:15:20,399
these are the topics we discussed right

447
00:15:19,139 --> 00:15:21,480
here's the here's the things that we

448
00:15:20,399 --> 00:15:23,639
thought were so important that we

449
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,980
dedicated time to them today here's the

450
00:15:23,639 --> 00:15:27,480
actions we decided on and this time it's

451
00:15:25,980 --> 00:15:30,360
time to add people you can you can say

452
00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:32,279
we decided it's Peter's job to change

453
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,920
the way this thing operates maybe I have

454
00:15:32,279 --> 00:15:37,019
to reconfigure jira maybe I have to have

455
00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,519
a discussion with my manager lots of

456
00:15:37,019 --> 00:15:39,839
ideas

457
00:15:38,519 --> 00:15:41,699
that goes in the minutes afterwards

458
00:15:39,839 --> 00:15:44,279
everybody should know what's being done

459
00:15:41,699 --> 00:15:46,339
and who's going to do it

460
00:15:44,279 --> 00:15:46,339
um

461
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,779
and sometimes

462
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,860
the actions are for everyone you might

463
00:15:51,779 --> 00:15:54,420
decide that

464
00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:56,579
the whole team needs to do something

465
00:15:54,420 --> 00:15:59,940
differently

466
00:15:56,579 --> 00:16:01,500
and often I find in Tech teams it's okay

467
00:15:59,940 --> 00:16:02,760
everyone we need to write more

468
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:05,040
documentation

469
00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:06,839
and

470
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,639
it never happens and it keeps coming up

471
00:16:06,839 --> 00:16:12,019
if anybody has a solution for getting

472
00:16:08,639 --> 00:16:12,019
documentation written please tell me

473
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:18,959
anyhow that was how I run a retro so uh

474
00:16:16,620 --> 00:16:21,600
book a room get together

475
00:16:18,959 --> 00:16:24,600
come up with topics to discuss vote to

476
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:28,199
decide what gets discussed discuss

477
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:29,880
decide on the actions wrap everything up

478
00:16:28,199 --> 00:16:32,699
now I do want to give some credit for

479
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:35,160
this because the way I run a

480
00:16:32,699 --> 00:16:37,560
retrospective was heavily inspired by a

481
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,060
conference talk I went to at Yao in

482
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,980
2019.

483
00:16:39,060 --> 00:16:43,920
um I know Corey did retrospective

484
00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:47,100
anti-patterns if you would like more

485
00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:49,399
tips or a little bit more depth on the

486
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:51,600
things that I've just talked about um

487
00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:54,320
is great I know it's also written a book

488
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:54,320
I haven't read the book

489
00:16:55,620 --> 00:16:59,579
all right

490
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:02,839
I'll give you a moment longer to take a

491
00:16:59,579 --> 00:17:02,839
photo of the QR code if you like

492
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:10,740
so

493
00:17:09,120 --> 00:17:12,959
I talked a lot about

494
00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:14,579
book a meeting room gather everyone in

495
00:17:12,959 --> 00:17:18,839
person

496
00:17:14,579 --> 00:17:21,299
who has seen their entire team in person

497
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:22,620
in the last month

498
00:17:21,299 --> 00:17:24,900
the

499
00:17:22,620 --> 00:17:27,299
some people I'm like maybe a quarter of

500
00:17:24,900 --> 00:17:29,940
the room it's if I ask that question

501
00:17:27,299 --> 00:17:32,700
four years ago it would be most of the

502
00:17:29,940 --> 00:17:34,860
room it's not as common these days

503
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:37,260
which means

504
00:17:34,860 --> 00:17:39,660
digital tools can help you right there's

505
00:17:37,260 --> 00:17:42,539
there are ways to run this retrospective

506
00:17:39,660 --> 00:17:44,460
over a video conferencing software

507
00:17:42,539 --> 00:17:47,280
um you don't need to be in a room with

508
00:17:44,460 --> 00:17:50,340
sticky notes there are alternatives

509
00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:53,760
so um you know you might have

510
00:17:50,340 --> 00:17:56,820
people who work from home you might have

511
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,720
a team that's split between two cities

512
00:17:56,820 --> 00:17:59,039
um

513
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,220
let's have a look at what we can do for

514
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:01,220
them

515
00:18:01,260 --> 00:18:07,140
uh trellor is the first tool I have used

516
00:18:04,980 --> 00:18:10,140
for running retrospectives and it was

517
00:18:07,140 --> 00:18:12,360
great it's basically a digital board for

518
00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:14,700
digital sticky notes

519
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:16,380
um it has a board that's basically this

520
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:18,059
is a photo of a board

521
00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:20,100
um that board is organized into lists

522
00:18:18,059 --> 00:18:21,720
those are each of the columns and then

523
00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:22,919
cards which are the blocks in the

524
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:26,520
columns

525
00:18:22,919 --> 00:18:28,380
um the the board is basically like the

526
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,760
Whiteboard and the cards are like the

527
00:18:28,380 --> 00:18:31,799
sticky notes and the lists are sort of

528
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,419
how you keep them organized

529
00:18:31,799 --> 00:18:34,740
um there's templates this is what you

530
00:18:33,419 --> 00:18:35,640
get if you sort of just generate

531
00:18:34,740 --> 00:18:37,980
something from one of their

532
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:40,860
retrospective templates it gets the job

533
00:18:37,980 --> 00:18:43,140
there is a free tier you don't have to

534
00:18:40,860 --> 00:18:45,299
pay for it depending on exactly how

535
00:18:43,140 --> 00:18:47,280
you're using it it has a lot of other

536
00:18:45,299 --> 00:18:49,020
features that you don't need them for

537
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,580
running a retrospectives they're I'm

538
00:18:49,020 --> 00:18:53,100
sure they have their uses

539
00:18:50,580 --> 00:18:54,480
retrospectives don't need the full um

540
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:56,100
Suite

541
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,720
so

542
00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:58,740
this is what I first used and it was

543
00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:02,039
great I really like running

544
00:18:58,740 --> 00:19:04,440
retrospectives with Trello but um the I

545
00:19:02,039 --> 00:19:06,000
work in a very large company and the

546
00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,460
licensing of software gets very

547
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,500
complicated and eventually they decided

548
00:19:08,460 --> 00:19:12,780
it's too hard for you all to use to let

549
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:15,059
everyone use Trello we're taking it away

550
00:19:12,780 --> 00:19:17,460
so I had to move on to a different tool

551
00:19:15,059 --> 00:19:21,539
and now I use Miro

552
00:19:17,460 --> 00:19:24,360
so um Miro is what I use these days

553
00:19:21,539 --> 00:19:27,120
um it's like a digital whiteboard so

554
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:29,039
like Trello you can have sticky notes

555
00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:31,200
and put them places and write on them

556
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:32,820
you can also draw on it like a

557
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,980
whiteboard you can't draw on trailer you

558
00:19:32,820 --> 00:19:36,660
can draw a mirror you don't really need

559
00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:38,880
the drawing for Retros this is sort of

560
00:19:36,660 --> 00:19:41,700
Miro is overkill it's a bigger tool than

561
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,200
you need there's templates again this

562
00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:45,120
screenshot is sort of what you get if

563
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:48,240
you use one of the templates for

564
00:19:45,120 --> 00:19:49,620
retrospectives there is a free tier you

565
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,140
can use it without having to pay for it

566
00:19:49,620 --> 00:19:53,280
there are a lot of other features and

567
00:19:52,140 --> 00:19:54,840
again

568
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:56,880
I'm sure they have their uses not for

569
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,880
retrospectives they're they're not

570
00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:02,280
needed retrospective is a simple

571
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:04,860
so that's another tool you can consider

572
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,960
finally I'll talk about Microsoft

573
00:20:04,860 --> 00:20:08,700
whiteboard so uh

574
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,580
it's another digital whiteboard very

575
00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:12,840
similar idea to mirror

576
00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:14,100
um you know it's a whiteboard you can

577
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,840
put sticky notes on it you can type

578
00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:18,360
notes on the sticky notes you can draw

579
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,740
all over the Whiteboard if you like it

580
00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:20,340
has templates

581
00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:21,900
um

582
00:20:20,340 --> 00:20:23,100
here's a screenshot showing what it

583
00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:24,960
looks like if you use one of their

584
00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:26,700
retrospective templates to make a

585
00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,980
retrospective board

586
00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:30,780
it's not quite as polished as Miro I

587
00:20:28,980 --> 00:20:32,160
tried it once I didn't like it quite as

588
00:20:30,780 --> 00:20:34,980
much

589
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:38,580
um but it gets the job done and it is

590
00:20:34,980 --> 00:20:40,380
included in Microsoft 365 so if you work

591
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:42,179
for an organization that's already got

592
00:20:40,380 --> 00:20:43,500
an office subscription

593
00:20:42,179 --> 00:20:44,760
um chances are you already have access

594
00:20:43,500 --> 00:20:46,740
to this and it's a tool you can just

595
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,660
pick up and use without having to set up

596
00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:50,820
accounts with something else

597
00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:51,840
so um those are three of the tools that

598
00:20:50,820 --> 00:20:54,900
I've used

599
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,700
um Trello Miro and Microsoft whiteboard

600
00:20:54,900 --> 00:21:00,059
but there's also

601
00:20:56,700 --> 00:21:03,120
every single other tool right

602
00:21:00,059 --> 00:21:04,919
you don't need very much to run a retro

603
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:06,539
I haven't tried every single other tool

604
00:21:04,919 --> 00:21:08,580
but I bet you could find a way to make

605
00:21:06,539 --> 00:21:10,980
it work if you have a document that two

606
00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:12,660
people can type into at the same time

607
00:21:10,980 --> 00:21:14,400
you'll get there

608
00:21:12,660 --> 00:21:18,660
um

609
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:20,760
you can you can improvise you

610
00:21:18,660 --> 00:21:23,580
you need to modest

611
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:25,320
you could try running things without a

612
00:21:23,580 --> 00:21:26,760
tool and just having just video

613
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,900
conferencing and saying all right

614
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,700
someone shout to me and I'll write

615
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:31,440
things down I wouldn't recommend that

616
00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:33,360
it's a bit chaotic it doesn't work quite

617
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:36,059
as well you will need somewhere where

618
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:38,120
people can type to you

619
00:21:36,059 --> 00:21:38,120
um

620
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,260
you know if you really wanted to you

621
00:21:40,980 --> 00:21:46,679
could point a camera at a whiteboard I

622
00:21:43,260 --> 00:21:48,600
wouldn't try that either too chaotic

623
00:21:46,679 --> 00:21:50,220
so

624
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,220
I've talked about sort of what to do

625
00:21:50,220 --> 00:21:55,500
with your team Works partially from home

626
00:21:53,220 --> 00:21:57,120
or maybe from two Australian cities and

627
00:21:55,500 --> 00:21:59,940
so you can't just get everyone into the

628
00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:01,620
same room to have a thing but now moving

629
00:21:59,940 --> 00:22:04,260
on to a topic that's

630
00:22:01,620 --> 00:22:06,919
very close to my heart

631
00:22:04,260 --> 00:22:06,919
time zones

632
00:22:07,380 --> 00:22:12,059
what happens when your team is spread

633
00:22:10,260 --> 00:22:16,460
all around the world like I'm a manager

634
00:22:12,059 --> 00:22:19,919
of a team that has people in every major

635
00:22:16,460 --> 00:22:24,179
U.S time zone the East Coast of

636
00:22:19,919 --> 00:22:26,100
Australia India and Amsterdam

637
00:22:24,179 --> 00:22:28,260
there is no good time to get everyone

638
00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:30,360
together all at once right it's it's

639
00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:32,220
always the middle of the night somewhere

640
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:35,340
so

641
00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:35,940
you're going to have to make compromises

642
00:22:35,340 --> 00:22:38,159
um

643
00:22:35,940 --> 00:22:40,080
in general you should try and schedule

644
00:22:38,159 --> 00:22:42,000
most of your Retros so that they work

645
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:45,240
for most of your teams your teammates

646
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,799
right for me that means first thing in

647
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,659
the morning Melbourne time because it

648
00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:50,820
people from Seattle can join people from

649
00:22:48,659 --> 00:22:52,500
Australia can join people from the rest

650
00:22:50,820 --> 00:22:54,600
of the US can join if they're working

651
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:56,640
sort of a little bit beyond standard

652
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,260
office hours which

653
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,520
as long as you don't ask them to do it

654
00:22:58,260 --> 00:23:00,960
too often people are usually willing to

655
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,880
do that

656
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,919
um and most of your Retros do that right

657
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:08,039
that's my team my team is mostly on the

658
00:23:04,919 --> 00:23:09,659
west coast of the US and in Australia

659
00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:10,980
but there are people in the rest of the

660
00:23:09,659 --> 00:23:12,539
world there's people in India people in

661
00:23:10,980 --> 00:23:14,159
Amsterdam people in the east coast of

662
00:23:12,539 --> 00:23:14,940
the US

663
00:23:14,159 --> 00:23:17,340
um

664
00:23:14,940 --> 00:23:19,380
so some of your retros

665
00:23:17,340 --> 00:23:21,720
should work for everyone like have the

666
00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:23,340
occasional one at a different time you

667
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,039
know I can stay up late and run one at a

668
00:23:23,340 --> 00:23:28,020
time that works for India and Amsterdam

669
00:23:26,039 --> 00:23:30,120
um you know knowing that the people in

670
00:23:28,020 --> 00:23:31,440
the US are going to miss out this time I

671
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:34,559
could stay up really late in run one

672
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,880
that works for Amsterdam and New York

673
00:23:34,559 --> 00:23:40,260
um you know it's not as convenient for

674
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:42,240
me but people will sort of join

675
00:23:40,260 --> 00:23:44,159
um so

676
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:45,659
you know maybe run two retros that work

677
00:23:44,159 --> 00:23:47,880
for wherever the bulk of your team is

678
00:23:45,659 --> 00:23:50,039
and then every third or so

679
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:53,039
run one at a different time that uh to

680
00:23:50,039 --> 00:23:54,900
make sure everyone else can join in or

681
00:23:53,039 --> 00:23:56,520
if it's inconvenient for you like you

682
00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:57,960
know I'd have to stay up quite late to

683
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:59,760
run something that's you know first

684
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,140
thing in the morning in New York let

685
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,260
someone else on your team run a retro

686
00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:06,720
teach them how you can get them to watch

687
00:24:04,260 --> 00:24:10,100
the great talk you saw at pycon and

688
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,100
they'll know exactly what to do

689
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:14,760
so in case you've been in a hole for

690
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,659
this whole talk and not paying attention

691
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,419
to what I've been saying I'm just going

692
00:24:15,659 --> 00:24:19,740
to do a very quick recap

693
00:24:18,419 --> 00:24:21,419
so

694
00:24:19,740 --> 00:24:24,000
retrospectives

695
00:24:21,419 --> 00:24:26,940
you should run them they're good

696
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:29,520
how I run a retrospective is that I

697
00:24:26,940 --> 00:24:33,120
prepare I gather everyone together we

698
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:36,799
brainstorm vote discuss

699
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:38,880
decide what to do and then conclude

700
00:24:36,799 --> 00:24:40,620
there's some digital tools to help you

701
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,780
you could use Trello Miro Microsoft

702
00:24:40,620 --> 00:24:44,460
whiteboard they will get the job done

703
00:24:42,780 --> 00:24:45,780
any other tool will probably work too

704
00:24:44,460 --> 00:24:48,900
whatever you're already comfortable with

705
00:24:45,780 --> 00:24:49,740
for collaborating with your team

706
00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:51,720
um

707
00:24:49,740 --> 00:24:55,580
and now

708
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,580
there is a little bit of time for Q a

709
00:24:55,930 --> 00:25:07,159
[Applause]

710
00:25:03,659 --> 00:25:07,159
excellent question up here

711
00:25:13,140 --> 00:25:18,360
hi um thanks for sharing

712
00:25:15,780 --> 00:25:21,000
um my question is about whether or not

713
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:22,700
you have any thoughts or tips on how to

714
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:25,799
best run

715
00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:28,500
inter-team Retros because we oftentimes

716
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:31,020
have dependency on each other and yeah

717
00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:33,080
yeah sure so

718
00:25:31,020 --> 00:25:34,740
I've been involved in some

719
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,140
retrospectives that were bigger that

720
00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:40,320
involved you know multiple teams getting

721
00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:42,059
together and basically you can use the

722
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,159
exact same process

723
00:25:42,059 --> 00:25:46,380
um what I've described here will work

724
00:25:44,159 --> 00:25:47,760
for a larger audience

725
00:25:46,380 --> 00:25:50,100
um

726
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:52,500
it will scale up to a point right you

727
00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:54,000
you're if you're getting you know 200

728
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:55,799
people in a room maybe this is going to

729
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,820
be not work anymore but when you've sort

730
00:25:55,799 --> 00:25:59,279
of got

731
00:25:56,820 --> 00:26:00,659
two or three teams so you've maybe up to

732
00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:02,940
about 20 people this will this will

733
00:26:00,659 --> 00:26:06,480
still work pretty pretty well

734
00:26:02,940 --> 00:26:09,779
um the thing that changes is what topics

735
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:12,720
do people bring up when the context is

736
00:26:09,779 --> 00:26:14,640
how how do we operate together as a team

737
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,559
um and the voting like which topics are

738
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:18,120
important to discuss like what gets

739
00:26:16,559 --> 00:26:20,340
brought up what gets voted on will be

740
00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:22,140
different in a retrospective that is

741
00:26:20,340 --> 00:26:23,700
multiple teams coming together

742
00:26:22,140 --> 00:26:25,020
compared to when it's just your team

743
00:26:23,700 --> 00:26:26,340
right when it's just your team you talk

744
00:26:25,020 --> 00:26:29,520
about what your team's working on but

745
00:26:26,340 --> 00:26:31,740
when it's several teams then people tend

746
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:35,600
to talk about how we operate with each

747
00:26:31,740 --> 00:26:35,600
other and the larger organization

748
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:47,760
hey um thanks Peter sorry me try this um

749
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,740
is there any red flags to look out for

750
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,600
I'm sorry if this question is putting

751
00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:53,279
you on the spot um but in the way of the

752
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,840
environment or how the Retro is being

753
00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:57,480
run is there any red flags that you

754
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,220
would suggest to look out for in case a

755
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,260
team isn't running a retro

756
00:26:59,220 --> 00:27:03,600
um properly per se

757
00:27:01,260 --> 00:27:06,659
yeah sure so

758
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,799
the two things that I would sort of look

759
00:27:06,659 --> 00:27:10,159
out for

760
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:12,840
one of them is

761
00:27:10,159 --> 00:27:14,520
sometimes one or two people like a

762
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,500
minority for a team will dominate the

763
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,299
discussion they will they will want to

764
00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:20,039
be the people talking and the people who

765
00:27:18,299 --> 00:27:21,059
get their cards voted for and discussed

766
00:27:20,039 --> 00:27:22,080
and the people who come up with the

767
00:27:21,059 --> 00:27:23,520
actions

768
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,159
and that's why it's important to have

769
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,320
someone actively facilitating like as

770
00:27:26,159 --> 00:27:30,179
the organizer you'll be participating in

771
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:32,279
the discussion a bit but you should

772
00:27:30,179 --> 00:27:34,440
always have half your mind on making

773
00:27:32,279 --> 00:27:36,960
sure that everyone gets heard

774
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,360
um the other red flag is if there is

775
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,020
serious conflict in your team

776
00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:41,760
um

777
00:27:40,020 --> 00:27:43,679
which again happens I'm glad I haven't

778
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,419
had to deal with that myself

779
00:27:43,679 --> 00:27:47,700
I'm not sure if this is the right tool

780
00:27:45,419 --> 00:27:48,419
for the job because I haven't been there

781
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:50,279
um

782
00:27:48,419 --> 00:27:52,559
although one thing that might be worth

783
00:27:50,279 --> 00:27:53,820
trying then is instead of facilitating

784
00:27:52,559 --> 00:27:55,200
it yourself

785
00:27:53,820 --> 00:27:56,940
see if you can find an outside

786
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,640
facilitator who's a little bit further

787
00:27:56,940 --> 00:28:01,440
from the conflict to um to keep things

788
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,100
rolling and that can sort of help to

789
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,100
keep things on track

790
00:28:08,820 --> 00:28:13,320
um I'm interested in how big is the team

791
00:28:11,159 --> 00:28:15,419
that you're running this for and are

792
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,419
there any changes that you would make if

793
00:28:15,419 --> 00:28:21,740
you were scaling it down to a team of uh

794
00:28:18,419 --> 00:28:21,740
say two to five people

795
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,580
um so the team that I'm running this for

796
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,840
now the full team spread across all the

797
00:28:26,580 --> 00:28:29,840
time zones is

798
00:28:30,360 --> 00:28:35,400
depends exactly how you count it but in

799
00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:37,740
the ballpark of 20 or 30 people

800
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:41,700
um in any one meeting there'd usually be

801
00:28:37,740 --> 00:28:43,559
about 8 10 maybe 12 if everybody really

802
00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:45,419
wants to be there

803
00:28:43,559 --> 00:28:47,700
um so that's sort of about the scale I'm

804
00:28:45,419 --> 00:28:49,020
operating at I've run this exact same

805
00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:51,539
thing on other teams that have been

806
00:28:49,020 --> 00:28:53,039
smaller like going down to five I

807
00:28:51,539 --> 00:28:55,020
haven't tried it at two I'm not sure if

808
00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:57,860
it's the right structure but it

809
00:28:55,020 --> 00:28:57,860
certainly works at five

810
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:03,299
okay well that's all we have time for

811
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,060
please join me in thinking Peter again

812
00:29:03,299 --> 00:29:08,220
and we have a small gift for you

813
00:29:05,060 --> 00:29:09,720
[Music]

814
00:29:08,220 --> 00:29:12,419
thank you on behalf of the conference

815
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,039
all right thank you and if anybody wants

816
00:29:12,419 --> 00:29:15,120
to continue this discussion I'm going to

817
00:29:14,039 --> 00:29:16,679
pack up and then I'm going to step

818
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,260
outside that door and if you're Corner

819
00:29:16,679 --> 00:29:20,060
me there I will keep this going thank

820
00:29:19,260 --> 00:29:25,300
you very much

821
00:29:20,060 --> 00:29:25,300
[Applause]