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foreign

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[Music]

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so I'd like to introduce Rebecca Giblin

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unfortunately

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um Professor Giblin is unable to join us

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but we'll be live it's on my on the

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video

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um bear with me uh so Professor Giblin

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is an arc future fellow and a professor

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at Melbourne law school and the director

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of the internet intellectual property

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Research Institute of Australia her work

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focuses on diverse range of topics the

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legal and social impacts of Library

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e-lending projects my my passion

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personally

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I have Fuller protection of creators

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rights can help them get paid and

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simultaneously reclaim lost culture

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access to knowledge and culture

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technology regulation and copyright

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Professor Giblin also leads the arc

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funded author's interest as well as

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untapped the Australian literary

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heritage project her new book Trope

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Point capitalism which we'll be giving

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away as Charity raffle prizes with Corey

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doctorow explores how we will recapture

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creative labor markets from Big Tech and

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big content to get artists paid so I

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will pass you on to Rebecca Giblin thank

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you

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[Applause]

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creators aren't getting paid that's

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because powerful corporations have

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figured out how to create choke points

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that let them snatch up most of the

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value generated by creative work before

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it reaches creative workers

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I'm Corey doctorow and I'm Rebecca

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Giblin

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our new book choke point capitalism

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pulls aside the veil on the tricks big

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Tech and big content used to lock in

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users and suppliers eliminate

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competition and ultimately Shakedown

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creators and producers

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we also share tons of ideas for how we

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can recapture creative labor markets to

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make them fairer and more sustainable

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Margaret Atwood says we tell how the

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vampires crashed the party and provide

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protective garlic but don't take her

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word for it check out our extended video

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or read the book for more

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[Music]

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okay I think I'm on am I on hi everybody

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from Austin

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um I came here for South by Southwest

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which is uh incredible if I'd known to

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to dream that I could speak at South by

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Southwest I would have had that dream

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but I lacked the imagination even to

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think that it could have been possible

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so it's been amazing I had every

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intention of being back on a plane on

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Monday and coming to join you live in

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Melbourne

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um I live and work on the unseated Labor

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injury people about a kilometer from

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where you're all sitting right now but

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the universe has other plans so instead

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I am here at almost midnight but super

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excited to talk to you about the ideas

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in this book and how it came about

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um

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I want to first of all do acknowledge

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the um the Elders of the woundary people

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past and present as well as any First

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Nations people here with us today and

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also to acknowledge everybody fighting

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to restore lost knowledge and language

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and culture

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so this book was uh born

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um in a taxi between Saint Kilda and the

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city

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um in February 2017. Corey had come over

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for a book tour and we're doing an event

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together we really didn't know each

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other very well at that point he you

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know you know we knew each other to pass

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he'd blogged about some of my research

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before but it was really in that taxi

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that we we realized that we had this

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this shared Vision like we were both you

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know between us we've worked in this

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space for you know something like for

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decades so we're Veterans of the

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copyright Wars

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um which you know have some intersection

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with the culture wars and we were just

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so tired and frustrated

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we were tired and frustrated because we

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were sick and tired of being told that

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we have to choose between big Tech and

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big content and so if you want um you

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know if you if you want exceptions that

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work if you want

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um you know the ability for for for for

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people to have Choice

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um that means that you hate artists and

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you want them to starve

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um but um uh and and vice versa so we

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just we're just not accepting this false

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dichotomy and what we were what we

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realized that we had this shared

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understanding that um that no matter

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which of those sides that you chose it

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was always not going to work because at

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best what you were going to do is pick

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the giant who and um who whose crumbs

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were going to fall from the table and

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what we discovered was the shared Vision

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where we didn't want to have any Giants

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we wanted the people who actually made

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um

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um made the things and provided the

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services that give us value were able to

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share fairly in the rewards of their

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work so that was 2017 we're both super

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busy fast forward uh three years and

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um I'm locked in my apartment I was

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almost this day to the date I think

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um and while of course that was in in a

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lot of ways that was

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um the opposite of freedom but I decided

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to take it as a a moment of freedom

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because usually my my work schedule is

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like filled up you know a couple years

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in advance and I've got

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um you know I write a grant application

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I say what I'm going to do four years

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from now

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um but covert through all of that up in

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the air and I got to cancel everything

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and ask myself the question what do I

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most want to work on right now what's

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the story that I need to tell and

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straight away I knew it was the one

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about how big business has

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um stolen creative labor markets and all

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that we can do to take them back

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um and so I start working on this and I

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um I I get like a couple weeks in and

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it's so exciting and exhilarating but

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it's really really hard because yes I'm

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locked in my apartment I haven't got any

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of those Corridor conversations that I

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might usually have at University where I

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work at the office but also I'm just

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arguing with myself and I'm covering all

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of these things that I really haven't

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covered before and so my brain one day

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was just like you know what would be

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better

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if Corey doctor wrote this book with me

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um and you know that's actually so I

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sent him an email and I said hey Corey

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do you want to write this book with me

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um and that's a thing you can do you can

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write to Corey doctor and say write a

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book with me and he'll say Yes

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um he absolutely hates it when I make

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this joke

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um because uh he says and if he was here

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he would just like do not write to me

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please don't do that but

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um it just happens that you know Corey

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writes when he's anxious and he's now

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got seven books coming out so this was a

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really good time to kind of get on to

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him and um and to start figuring this

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out so that was my lifeline to the

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outside world during that um long

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Melbourne

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um six lockdowns

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working with Corey to like figure this

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out and to to Really unpack all of these

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different creative labor markets see

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what was going on because we were more

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familiar with some than others you know

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particularly the book markets we know a

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lot about people really got into the

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nitty-gritty of other things and then we

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realized hang on a minute they're all

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using the same Playbook

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and so I'm going to start uh today by

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telling you

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um one of the most egregious stories

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that illustrates this Playbook and

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that's around audible gate and I'm not

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sure how many of you in the room here

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have heard of that Scandal it should be

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that we've all heard of it but um uh it

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didn't get quite quite that that degree

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of

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um of of of

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scandalousness where we were all talking

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about it but enough people were talking

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about I'm going to tell you what

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happened Okay so

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audible lots of you will know audible

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tons of you'll be subscribers to Audible

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and there's really good reasons for that

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it is by far the most dominant ebook oh

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sorry audiobook supplier in the English

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language World

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um it tries to treat its customers very

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well so you get um you get little perks

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if you're an ongoing subscriber and one

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of the perks that you get offered

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um is that you know there was this very

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very generous no no questions asked

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returns policy so you could buy a book

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with your monthly credit and then um you

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could return that book for a new credit

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no questions asked and Amazon

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um would you know give you a lot of

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opportunities to do this so they would

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send you an email after you finish the

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book or they would like put it in their

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sort of

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um their regular newsletter emails that

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have it listed on their website very

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easy to do like one kind of click

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um they would bring pop-up after you

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finish reading the book

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um so there were lots and lots of

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opportunities to do this and a lot of

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people did it they started treating uh

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their audible

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um their audible libraries as if they

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were

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um like library books

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um

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borrow a book return a book and what

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they didn't realize because um audible

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kept this part very quiet is that each

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time they did return a book and they

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could do that you know even if they'd in

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they read the whole book they'd loved it

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um they'd had it on their device for

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like up to a year they could still

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return it for a full credit no questions

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asked but what they didn't realize is

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that when they did that the full royalty

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was being clawed back from the

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Independent Riders who used the ACX

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platform to get their books onto audible

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which were a a really big part of the

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market share as well as some smaller

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Publishers

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um and so this this was part of a bigger

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scam and and I'm going to tell you how

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it got Unwound

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um so that it it was becoming more and

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more prevalent over time so that um

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authors started noticing that there was

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something really weird going on with

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their sales so they were producing these

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books like very expensively in some

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cases it can cost you know 10 000 USD to

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produce a high quality audiobook they

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were being well reviewed but the sales

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were really dropping compared to what

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they used to be and some authors like

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Susan May who's a Perth based Rider they

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were thinking you know we think

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00:10:31,620 --> 00:10:35,399
something's up with the returns right

280
00:10:33,660 --> 00:10:38,160
but they couldn't really find that out

281
00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:42,120
because Amazon and audible notoriously

282
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:45,060
secret companies and they refused to

283
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:47,279
report to authors on what their returns

284
00:10:45,060 --> 00:10:50,100
and their sales were instead they would

285
00:10:47,279 --> 00:10:52,079
only report on net sales so it was one

286
00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:53,579
column instead of a column that said

287
00:10:52,079 --> 00:10:54,959
here are the amount of books you sold

288
00:10:53,579 --> 00:10:57,300
here are the number of books that were

289
00:10:54,959 --> 00:10:59,160
returned and here's your net sales you

290
00:10:57,300 --> 00:11:02,899
just got the net sales with all of the

291
00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,899
rest hidden in the background

292
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,320
um when people like Susan tried to get

293
00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,480
onto audible to to ask for the breakdown

294
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,740
they just kept getting stonewalled

295
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,180
um no matter what they did they couldn't

296
00:11:10,740 --> 00:11:15,899
get this information

297
00:11:12,180 --> 00:11:18,480
but then one day October 2020 there was

298
00:11:15,899 --> 00:11:20,160
a reporting glitch and three weeks of

299
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:21,300
returns data suddenly came up in a

300
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,160
single day

301
00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:25,620
and authors were saying hang on a minute

302
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,720
like I'm having like dozens or even

303
00:11:25,620 --> 00:11:30,240
hundreds thousands of books being

304
00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:32,760
returned and the scales were lifted from

305
00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:34,740
their eyes a spotlight was shown

306
00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,420
um into what was going on here and

307
00:11:34,740 --> 00:11:38,720
people finally understood the scope of

308
00:11:36,420 --> 00:11:38,720
the problem

309
00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:44,880
um so why could audible be so abusive

310
00:11:43,380 --> 00:11:47,160
you know why were they able to get away

311
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,600
with this for so long

312
00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,700
um I'm going to talk about what happened

313
00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:53,220
what happened next but but how did they

314
00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:55,980
do this in the first place well Amazon

315
00:11:53,220 --> 00:11:57,540
is the master of this Playbook they

316
00:11:55,980 --> 00:11:59,399
really pioneered it they made it into a

317
00:11:57,540 --> 00:12:00,660
fancy diagram and they really love to

318
00:11:59,399 --> 00:12:02,519
boast about it

319
00:12:00,660 --> 00:12:04,980
um so we Corey and I made another little

320
00:12:02,519 --> 00:12:07,620
video which is to

321
00:12:04,980 --> 00:12:09,720
um unpack how Amazon explains these

322
00:12:07,620 --> 00:12:11,399
tactics which it calls its flywheel and

323
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:15,200
then explain what we think is really

324
00:12:11,399 --> 00:12:15,200
going on so we're going to show that now

325
00:12:15,540 --> 00:12:21,540
here's how Amazon describes its flywheel

326
00:12:18,779 --> 00:12:23,220
lower costs lead to lower prices which

327
00:12:21,540 --> 00:12:26,040
create better customer experiences

328
00:12:23,220 --> 00:12:28,019
translating to more traffic which then

329
00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:30,240
attracts more Sellers and thus a better

330
00:12:28,019 --> 00:12:33,420
selection that improves The Experience

331
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:37,079
even more and the cycle continues

332
00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:39,959
Amazon calls this a virtuous cycle

333
00:12:37,079 --> 00:12:42,180
but it's not virtuous it's

334
00:12:39,959 --> 00:12:45,480
anti-competitive

335
00:12:42,180 --> 00:12:48,120
here's what's really going on

336
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:51,480
Amazon strategy has always been to Lock

337
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:53,579
in its customers one way it does this is

338
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,220
by putting digital Rights Management on

339
00:12:53,579 --> 00:12:59,100
ebooks and audio books which cements

340
00:12:56,220 --> 00:13:01,320
readers to Kindle and audible another is

341
00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:03,899
by offering fast free shipping to Prime

342
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,480
members once you pay your annual fee

343
00:13:03,899 --> 00:13:08,160
Amazon becomes your default whenever you

344
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:11,040
need to buy something

345
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:12,420
in its customers lets Amazon looking at

346
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,760
suppliers too

347
00:13:12,420 --> 00:13:16,920
Publishers and small businesses can't

348
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,720
afford to give up access to Amazon's

349
00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,880
increasingly large share of the market

350
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,800
so they keep listing their goods there

351
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,360
even when that's bad for their business

352
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,860
long term

353
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:27,959
[Music]

354
00:13:24,860 --> 00:13:29,940
Amazon's lower cost structure is just a

355
00:13:27,959 --> 00:13:31,139
euphemism for shaking down its suppliers

356
00:13:29,940 --> 00:13:34,019
and workers

357
00:13:31,139 --> 00:13:36,360
Amazon uses its Market power to demand

358
00:13:34,019 --> 00:13:38,639
steep discounts and high fees from those

359
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:41,220
other businesses as a cost of selling on

360
00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:43,139
its platform it uses that money to

361
00:13:41,220 --> 00:13:44,700
subsidize low prices

362
00:13:43,139 --> 00:13:48,060
which has the effect of eliminating

363
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:50,160
competitors who actually pay fairly

364
00:13:48,060 --> 00:13:53,279
as time goes on that means Amazon

365
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:55,440
suppliers have even less choice

366
00:13:53,279 --> 00:13:57,300
those low prices also lure more

367
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,579
customers who then get locked into

368
00:13:57,300 --> 00:14:01,980
Amazon's platform as well

369
00:13:59,579 --> 00:14:04,200
the Shakedown grows more merciless and

370
00:14:01,980 --> 00:14:08,720
damaging as Amazon's flywheel spins

371
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,720
faster and gains ever more momentum

372
00:14:20,940 --> 00:14:23,940
foreign

373
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:33,240
all of the companies that we look at in

374
00:14:31,380 --> 00:14:35,220
in the course of the book are doing

375
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:37,440
exactly the same thing where they're

376
00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:38,820
locking in their their users locking in

377
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,100
their suppliers

378
00:14:38,820 --> 00:14:43,920
um they're able to do this because they

379
00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:45,420
get lots of sweet sweet VC dollars with

380
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,040
the promise that they will choke point

381
00:14:45,420 --> 00:14:49,980
their industries that allow them to

382
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,300
throw at sweeteners you know to to to be

383
00:14:49,980 --> 00:14:53,160
attractive to the customers and then to

384
00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:55,500
be attractive to the businesses but also

385
00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,899
to eliminate competition you know Amazon

386
00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:59,040
spent 200 million dollars in a single

387
00:14:57,899 --> 00:15:02,160
month

388
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:04,440
um when diapers.com looked like it might

389
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:07,440
be some kind of threat in the the nappy

390
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:10,500
market and that sounds like an expensive

391
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:12,480
way of cornering the market for nappies

392
00:15:10,500 --> 00:15:14,519
but it's a very very cheap way of

393
00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,680
sending a signal that you will do a

394
00:15:14,519 --> 00:15:19,320
Scorch Earth approach to anybody who

395
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:22,380
dares to impinge on on what you think is

396
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:24,180
your space and what that means is that

397
00:15:22,380 --> 00:15:26,519
um that Venture capitalists will not

398
00:15:24,180 --> 00:15:28,920
enter the a Kill Zone of Amazon and

399
00:15:26,519 --> 00:15:30,839
these other Giants because they know

400
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,040
that the the big risk is that they will

401
00:15:30,839 --> 00:15:33,779
lose everything

402
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,519
um if Amazon decides that their toes

403
00:15:33,779 --> 00:15:37,800
have been stepped on

404
00:15:35,519 --> 00:15:40,139
but why are these companies able to

405
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,959
choke point these markets the whole you

406
00:15:40,139 --> 00:15:44,579
know say what you like about capitalism

407
00:15:41,959 --> 00:15:46,680
but competition is supposed to be

408
00:15:44,579 --> 00:15:49,380
fundamental to it right there's supposed

409
00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,339
to be a free exchange between buyers and

410
00:15:49,380 --> 00:15:53,279
sellers

411
00:15:50,339 --> 00:15:56,459
but what we've seen over the last 40

412
00:15:53,279 --> 00:15:59,760
years is a systematic project to

413
00:15:56,459 --> 00:16:02,880
eliminate competition and to enable

414
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:05,779
these choke points to form that came

415
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:08,940
about thanks to a radical

416
00:16:05,779 --> 00:16:10,440
reinterpretation of the origins of U.S

417
00:16:08,940 --> 00:16:12,300
antitrust law in particular by somebody

418
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,680
called Robert Bork

419
00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:14,760
um he came along it was a bit of a

420
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,399
revisionist

421
00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:19,139
and he said no no no no no

422
00:16:17,399 --> 00:16:21,480
um despite all evidence of the contrary

423
00:16:19,139 --> 00:16:23,220
Congress wasn't really concerned about

424
00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,600
monopolies

425
00:16:23,220 --> 00:16:26,880
um when it passed this antitrust

426
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,560
legislation it was concerned about

427
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,480
consumer welfare

428
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,620
and what that means

429
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,959
um in a nutshell there's a little bit

430
00:16:31,620 --> 00:16:35,820
more Nuance but this is the vibe of it

431
00:16:33,959 --> 00:16:37,800
um is that the the question about

432
00:16:35,820 --> 00:16:41,339
whether antitrust law or competition law

433
00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:45,180
should get involved depends on whether

434
00:16:41,339 --> 00:16:48,779
um the the the the the change is likely

435
00:16:45,180 --> 00:16:51,420
to um have adverse effects on consumers

436
00:16:48,779 --> 00:16:53,820
so for example is it going to make the

437
00:16:51,420 --> 00:16:55,800
prices go up at the checkout now that's

438
00:16:53,820 --> 00:16:57,540
a reason where anti that's a situation

439
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,800
where competition law would still

440
00:16:57,540 --> 00:17:02,699
intervene

441
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,959
one of course that did is that it in and

442
00:17:02,699 --> 00:17:06,120
and

443
00:17:03,959 --> 00:17:09,299
um so first of all I'll say what what

444
00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:11,640
that was accompanied by was

445
00:17:09,299 --> 00:17:13,679
um we got rid of the general suspicion

446
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:16,559
of big companies and the general idea

447
00:17:13,679 --> 00:17:18,000
that being big was you know likely to

448
00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:20,339
lead to abuses

449
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,140
and instead we adopted these Notions

450
00:17:20,339 --> 00:17:24,299
that well if they're very big they're

451
00:17:22,140 --> 00:17:25,980
probably very efficient right and we

452
00:17:24,299 --> 00:17:28,919
don't need to worry about them being big

453
00:17:25,980 --> 00:17:31,260
because if they become big and they get

454
00:17:28,919 --> 00:17:33,240
a temporary Market advantage and then

455
00:17:31,260 --> 00:17:35,280
they make more profits then that will

456
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:37,140
attract attract competitors into the

457
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:39,480
market and that temporary Market

458
00:17:37,140 --> 00:17:42,720
Advantage will be competed away and

459
00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,940
everything is Rosy okay but of course

460
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,620
that's not what happens because this

461
00:17:44,940 --> 00:17:48,660
this project

462
00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:51,360
um to eliminate competition has been

463
00:17:48,660 --> 00:17:53,760
about figuring out ways in which to to

464
00:17:51,360 --> 00:17:56,160
convert those supposedly temporary

465
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:59,039
Market advantages into much more

466
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,720
enduring ones and they say the quiet

467
00:17:59,039 --> 00:18:02,820
part out loud you know there's a

468
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,980
shamelessness to it Peter Thiel comes

469
00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:06,960
out and says competition is for losers

470
00:18:04,980 --> 00:18:09,360
like why would you get into a market

471
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,340
where you have to compete

472
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:14,580
um Warren Buffett

473
00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:18,120
um salivates over companies that have

474
00:18:14,580 --> 00:18:20,340
what he calls wide sustainable moats all

475
00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:22,559
right so in other words barriers that

476
00:18:20,340 --> 00:18:23,640
stop new competitors from entering into

477
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:25,799
the market

478
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,900
and that's what we mean when we talk

479
00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:30,059
about the choke points in true Point

480
00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:31,679
capitalism

481
00:18:30,059 --> 00:18:34,080
um I should mention that these are

482
00:18:31,679 --> 00:18:36,600
caused not just by monopolies but also

483
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:40,140
by monopsonies

484
00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:42,539
um this is not a sexy word monopsony um

485
00:18:40,140 --> 00:18:43,559
and it's a little tricky sometimes for

486
00:18:42,539 --> 00:18:45,120
people to get their heads around because

487
00:18:43,559 --> 00:18:47,039
we're going to have a family destroying

488
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:49,440
board game for that one

489
00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:51,660
um but a monopoly is like the flip side

490
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:54,539
to oh sorry a monopsony is a flip side

491
00:18:51,660 --> 00:18:57,780
to a monopoly a monopoly is where you've

492
00:18:54,539 --> 00:18:59,520
got sellers who are very powerful

493
00:18:57,780 --> 00:19:01,500
um and a monopsy is where you've got

494
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,820
buyers who are very powerful and so

495
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:04,919
since there's an Australian audience

496
00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:07,440
maybe the most accessible

497
00:19:04,919 --> 00:19:11,100
um example of this as the supermarket

498
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:13,080
duopoly calls and woolies if you're um a

499
00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:14,880
food manufacturer or a food supplier

500
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,860
you're the seller

501
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:19,020
but you don't have very much power at

502
00:19:16,860 --> 00:19:21,240
all right unless you're a Nestle or one

503
00:19:19,020 --> 00:19:23,520
of the other enormous multinationals

504
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,200
your bargaining power

505
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,179
um in relationship to Coles and

506
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,960
Woolworth is very small they are very

507
00:19:27,179 --> 00:19:29,960
powerful buyers

508
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,900
um when you think about the consumer

509
00:19:31,740 --> 00:19:36,059
welfare standard for a moment and we see

510
00:19:33,900 --> 00:19:37,860
well pretty much under this new way of

511
00:19:36,059 --> 00:19:39,960
looking at competition law the only way

512
00:19:37,860 --> 00:19:42,480
you're going to get in trouble is if you

513
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:44,220
raise prices for consumers

514
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,799
then of course the obvious and very

515
00:19:44,220 --> 00:19:49,380
rational thing to do is to look to the

516
00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:52,380
other end of the chain and find ways to

517
00:19:49,380 --> 00:19:53,700
squeeze your workers and your suppliers

518
00:19:52,380 --> 00:19:55,460
and

519
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:58,080
um that um

520
00:19:55,460 --> 00:20:00,179
that's what you know what we we know

521
00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,860
about monopsony is that that it is the

522
00:20:00,179 --> 00:20:03,720
most dangerous thing for workers far

523
00:20:01,860 --> 00:20:04,919
more dangerous for workers than Monopoly

524
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:08,160
is

525
00:20:04,919 --> 00:20:09,840
um but the the evils of it are really

526
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,700
um have been very poorly understood

527
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,039
because while we've all been looking

528
00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:16,799
over here at consumer welfare

529
00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:19,679
everybody over here has been squeezed

530
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:22,500
but of course when you're getting this

531
00:20:19,679 --> 00:20:24,480
downward pressure on your wages or the

532
00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:25,799
money that you can bring in and for your

533
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,000
products and your services because

534
00:20:25,799 --> 00:20:28,740
you're having to deal with a very

535
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,760
powerful buyer

536
00:20:28,740 --> 00:20:34,440
um it has exactly the same end result as

537
00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:36,539
raised consumer prices because you've

538
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,580
got less and less ability to buy the

539
00:20:36,539 --> 00:20:40,080
goods and services that you need and

540
00:20:38,580 --> 00:20:42,419
we're really feeling that at the moment

541
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:44,280
inflation is so high what we're seeing

542
00:20:42,419 --> 00:20:46,320
is that corporations are passing that on

543
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,660
and then padding a bit of extra to to

544
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,760
increase their profit margins

545
00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:52,260
um so that that we are still getting the

546
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,539
raise consumer prices but at the other

547
00:20:52,260 --> 00:20:57,120
hand because they're so powerful as

548
00:20:54,539 --> 00:20:58,559
buyers of Labor then they're also um

549
00:20:57,120 --> 00:20:59,820
depressing prices at the other end and

550
00:20:58,559 --> 00:21:01,500
that's one of the reasons why we're all

551
00:20:59,820 --> 00:21:04,679
feeling so squeezed

552
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:06,720
so in checkpoint capitalism when we

553
00:21:04,679 --> 00:21:08,100
started looking at these um at these

554
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:12,299
different Industries we saw that

555
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:15,240
industry after industry was um affected

556
00:21:12,299 --> 00:21:18,780
um by this this same playbook in similar

557
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:20,400
ways the tools used to achieve the choke

558
00:21:18,780 --> 00:21:22,880
points are different so things like

559
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,020
digital Rights Management and

560
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:27,240
accumulating vast reservoirs of

561
00:21:25,020 --> 00:21:29,580
copyrights that then you know last for

562
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:31,740
you know 70 years after the author dies

563
00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:33,419
or in 95 years for a sound recording

564
00:21:31,740 --> 00:21:35,700
which you can then use to control the

565
00:21:33,419 --> 00:21:38,580
future of the industry we saw vertical

566
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:40,740
integration and uh where you you buy up

567
00:21:38,580 --> 00:21:44,520
everything in the value chain like for

568
00:21:40,740 --> 00:21:46,260
for online ad markets and horizontal

569
00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,520
integration where you buy up all your

570
00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:48,780
competitors if they're selling the same

571
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,720
stuff

572
00:21:48,780 --> 00:21:53,640
um and and Tool after tool choke point

573
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,299
after choke point

574
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,220
um

575
00:21:54,299 --> 00:21:57,720
it's happening everywhere

576
00:21:56,220 --> 00:21:59,820
now

577
00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,440
when they succeed in choke pointing a

578
00:21:59,820 --> 00:22:03,000
market even though it might look a bit

579
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:04,740
different

580
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,840
it always results in the same thing and

581
00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:08,280
Corey has coined a new term for this

582
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:11,159
which I really love

583
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:12,360
in shidification

584
00:22:11,159 --> 00:22:15,720
um

585
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:17,220
he did this in an instantly uh classic

586
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,620
um pluralistic column and it became

587
00:22:17,220 --> 00:22:22,100
published on wired as well and what he

588
00:22:19,620 --> 00:22:25,380
explains is that first of all

589
00:22:22,100 --> 00:22:26,820
platforms direct their surpluses to

590
00:22:25,380 --> 00:22:28,679
users right like I was talking about

591
00:22:26,820 --> 00:22:30,299
before they want to be as attractive as

592
00:22:28,679 --> 00:22:31,919
possible to users you get the users

593
00:22:30,299 --> 00:22:33,720
there because once the users are there

594
00:22:31,919 --> 00:22:36,179
then the suppliers have to be there

595
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,220
because that's where they access their

596
00:22:36,179 --> 00:22:40,320
audiences and you really want to get the

597
00:22:38,220 --> 00:22:43,200
suppliers in too so at the start you

598
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,760
direct your your surpluses to to them as

599
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,740
well you've you've been attractive to

600
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,659
the users you know your Facebook for

601
00:22:46,740 --> 00:22:51,240
example

602
00:22:47,659 --> 00:22:52,980
you make sure that the users can easily

603
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,360
connect to their friends and family and

604
00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:55,620
like people they want to stalk that they

605
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:57,780
went to high school with a long time ago

606
00:22:55,620 --> 00:23:00,360
and then they make it easy to be able to

607
00:22:57,780 --> 00:23:02,460
see the updates from those but then you

608
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,960
start changing it so that the business

609
00:23:02,460 --> 00:23:06,419
customers

610
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,039
um they're able to they're able to also

611
00:23:06,419 --> 00:23:09,900
use this as a tool for reaching their

612
00:23:08,039 --> 00:23:11,820
customers and maybe it's a little bit

613
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:13,260
easier for their messaging to get out

614
00:23:11,820 --> 00:23:14,640
there than to do the individual

615
00:23:13,260 --> 00:23:16,380
messaging to get out there so everybody

616
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,179
rushes to Facebook and it's super

617
00:23:16,380 --> 00:23:19,500
excited about this new way of

618
00:23:18,179 --> 00:23:22,559
communicating

619
00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:26,520
and then the advertisers come on board

620
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:28,919
and uh you this is the intunification

621
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,440
right you see less and less as a user

622
00:23:28,919 --> 00:23:33,059
you see less and less of the the the the

623
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,620
content from the people that you

624
00:23:33,059 --> 00:23:36,900
actually care about and even the

625
00:23:34,620 --> 00:23:38,280
businesses that you go to you see more

626
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:40,200
and more material

627
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:43,020
um from from these random advertisers

628
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:44,700
the Surplus is is moved away from the

629
00:23:43,020 --> 00:23:46,980
users away from

630
00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:49,620
um the business customers and then into

631
00:23:46,980 --> 00:23:52,740
directly into the pockets of investors

632
00:23:49,620 --> 00:23:55,020
and the aim with considerification is to

633
00:23:52,740 --> 00:23:58,260
make the service make the platform as

634
00:23:55,020 --> 00:23:59,700
bad as you can but just before the line

635
00:23:58,260 --> 00:24:01,980
where people just throw up their hands

636
00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:03,539
and give up on it all together

637
00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:06,059
um we're seeing it play out in real time

638
00:24:03,539 --> 00:24:07,440
with Twitter at the moment Elon might be

639
00:24:06,059 --> 00:24:08,880
a little bit on the wrong side of the

640
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,100
line I don't know how you're

641
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,260
experiencing this but um it's a very

642
00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:16,140
weird Vibes there lately and the sort of

643
00:24:13,260 --> 00:24:18,780
Tumbleweed kind of uh situation

644
00:24:16,140 --> 00:24:21,059
um so maybe it's it's it's it's died the

645
00:24:18,780 --> 00:24:22,679
insidification death

646
00:24:21,059 --> 00:24:24,780
all right

647
00:24:22,679 --> 00:24:27,240
um so we focus on the creative

648
00:24:24,780 --> 00:24:30,840
Industries in the book but choke points

649
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:33,240
and intuitification uh everywhere and I

650
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,799
do invite you to adopt that attempt and

651
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,480
name it and spot it whenever you see in

652
00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:37,159
shootification

653
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:41,280
um

654
00:24:37,159 --> 00:24:43,980
it's certainly coming to my mind a lot

655
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:45,480
that's the problem right the the problem

656
00:24:43,980 --> 00:24:47,580
is these checkpointed industries but

657
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,340
what I want to talk about today uh with

658
00:24:47,580 --> 00:24:52,860
you is the much more interesting

659
00:24:50,340 --> 00:24:54,179
um point of what we can do about it

660
00:24:52,860 --> 00:24:55,740
right

661
00:24:54,179 --> 00:24:57,780
um we were determined when we sat down

662
00:24:55,740 --> 00:25:01,500
to write this book that it was not going

663
00:24:57,780 --> 00:25:03,840
to be yet another chapter 11 book right

664
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:05,880
like we've all read them there's 10

665
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,299
chapters on how terrible everything is

666
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:11,940
like set out an excruciating detail and

667
00:25:09,299 --> 00:25:13,260
then a final chapter where oops we don't

668
00:25:11,940 --> 00:25:15,000
really we've run out of time we don't

669
00:25:13,260 --> 00:25:16,559
have really any uh space to look at

670
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:18,419
Solutions but a bit of sort of

671
00:25:16,559 --> 00:25:21,299
generalized hand waving and some are

672
00:25:18,419 --> 00:25:23,880
just like maybe vote harder this is not

673
00:25:21,299 --> 00:25:25,679
one of those books and I should say

674
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,120
um we were actually really surprised you

675
00:25:25,679 --> 00:25:28,980
know we've had an amazing reception to

676
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:31,260
this um heard from a lot of readers

677
00:25:28,980 --> 00:25:33,900
particularly on social media but

678
00:25:31,260 --> 00:25:35,520
um a whole bunch of people have called

679
00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:38,460
out the first half of them and they've

680
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:41,520
said like how like rage inducing it is

681
00:25:38,460 --> 00:25:43,140
utterly rage inducing and I actually I

682
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,960
honestly didn't expect that because I've

683
00:25:43,140 --> 00:25:46,919
worked in this space for so long that I

684
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,200
was just sort of I guess I've just

685
00:25:46,919 --> 00:25:51,960
become Inuit to it but then people just

686
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,760
saying that they're like rage crying and

687
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,220
like throwing the book against the wall

688
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,480
or like worst worth putting it down and

689
00:25:56,220 --> 00:25:58,919
not picking up because they just can't

690
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:01,440
bear to read anymore and that's

691
00:25:58,919 --> 00:26:03,360
particularly the people the creative

692
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,940
workers who knew that their sector was

693
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:08,159
bad but then to to pick that up and see

694
00:26:05,940 --> 00:26:11,220
how systematically this Shakedown is

695
00:26:08,159 --> 00:26:12,779
happening across all of these different

696
00:26:11,220 --> 00:26:14,520
markets is the thing that kind of drives

697
00:26:12,779 --> 00:26:15,659
them to despair so if you've started

698
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,520
reading the book and you've gone oof

699
00:26:15,659 --> 00:26:18,840
this is a despair book

700
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,400
um I would encourage you to keep reading

701
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,260
because the whole second half is where

702
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,299
we get to the solutions which is really

703
00:26:22,260 --> 00:26:25,740
what I want to focus on today

704
00:26:24,299 --> 00:26:26,419
and

705
00:26:25,740 --> 00:26:29,580
um

706
00:26:26,419 --> 00:26:33,960
what what I want to be sort of picking

707
00:26:29,580 --> 00:26:36,419
at is this idea that the open ethos has

708
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:39,480
a lot to teach us about how we can

709
00:26:36,419 --> 00:26:40,919
defeat choke point capitalism

710
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,960
so let's look

711
00:26:40,919 --> 00:26:44,760
um at a few of those um those different

712
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,919
ways in which can we can take

713
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,419
inspiration and I'm going to be talking

714
00:26:46,919 --> 00:26:50,400
about it again in the context of the

715
00:26:48,419 --> 00:26:53,279
creative Industries but also invite you

716
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:56,760
to think about more generally how this

717
00:26:53,279 --> 00:26:58,980
ethos can help us uh in the project to

718
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,840
defeat corporate concentration and choke

719
00:26:58,980 --> 00:27:02,220
point capitalism more generally in in

720
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:05,520
other areas

721
00:27:02,220 --> 00:27:07,980
I want to start with transparency which

722
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,419
is obviously one of the the core values

723
00:27:07,980 --> 00:27:10,860
of the free and open source software

724
00:27:09,419 --> 00:27:14,400
movements

725
00:27:10,860 --> 00:27:16,559
um by the ability to um to to view and

726
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,840
and study code

727
00:27:16,559 --> 00:27:20,880
and also you know a big part of the open

728
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:24,419
education movement open government open

729
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:25,260
data all everything open and so this is

730
00:27:24,419 --> 00:27:27,600
where I'm going to come back to that

731
00:27:25,260 --> 00:27:29,640
audible gate story

732
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,940
when that data glitch

733
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:35,640
um happened and the the authors finally

734
00:27:32,940 --> 00:27:37,740
saw what was going on that was the thing

735
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,419
that they needed the Catalyst that they

736
00:27:37,740 --> 00:27:43,020
needed to be able to do something about

737
00:27:39,419 --> 00:27:46,380
it so before this happened

738
00:27:43,020 --> 00:27:48,240
um they suspected something was up but

739
00:27:46,380 --> 00:27:49,860
you can't fight an enemy if you don't

740
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,419
know what it looks like it was really

741
00:27:49,860 --> 00:27:53,640
hard to mobilize any kind of resistance

742
00:27:51,419 --> 00:27:55,260
and as I said um Audible and Amazon are

743
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,120
deliberately secretive and they were

744
00:27:55,260 --> 00:27:59,460
definitely not um they were definitely

745
00:27:57,120 --> 00:28:02,580
hiding this uh deliberately from authors

746
00:27:59,460 --> 00:28:06,179
but once once we got even just that

747
00:28:02,580 --> 00:28:08,880
small light shown on the the situation

748
00:28:06,179 --> 00:28:11,700
the three weeks of return data authors

749
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,679
were able to mobilize and organize and

750
00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:17,120
to begin resisting and they created this

751
00:28:13,679 --> 00:28:19,020
campaign which was really um effective

752
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,760
that

753
00:28:19,020 --> 00:28:22,080
um Drew attention to these abusive

754
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,059
practices

755
00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:26,100
um also you know once once it became

756
00:28:24,059 --> 00:28:30,240
clear that this was what was happening

757
00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:31,559
with the um the the returns

758
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,539
um one of the authors that was involved

759
00:28:31,559 --> 00:28:35,700
in this campaign Colleen cross who's a

760
00:28:33,539 --> 00:28:38,340
former forensic accountant turned writer

761
00:28:35,700 --> 00:28:39,779
of um forensic fraud Thrillers

762
00:28:38,340 --> 00:28:41,039
um she started thinking well you know if

763
00:28:39,779 --> 00:28:42,720
they're doing that to us on returns what

764
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:46,080
are they doing to us

765
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,880
um when it comes to royalties and so she

766
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,039
started digging into the contracts which

767
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,500
again uh you know

768
00:28:50,039 --> 00:28:56,039
um a deliberately opaque and confusing

769
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:57,539
and she worked out that actually audible

770
00:28:56,039 --> 00:28:58,799
couldn't be paying independent authors

771
00:28:57,539 --> 00:29:00,539
what they were supposed to be paying

772
00:28:58,799 --> 00:29:02,400
independent authors because the numbers

773
00:29:00,539 --> 00:29:05,400
just didn't add up in a way that that

774
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,679
could have been plausible and so

775
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,240
um you know we we talked to her in the

776
00:29:07,679 --> 00:29:10,620
course of writing the book we asked her

777
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,940
what was at stake here like what kind of

778
00:29:10,620 --> 00:29:14,159
money we were talking about and she's

779
00:29:11,940 --> 00:29:16,740
estimating hundreds of millions of

780
00:29:14,159 --> 00:29:18,720
dollars on the return scam alone and

781
00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:20,640
then there's an enormous amount of wage

782
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:24,240
theft that she thinks is going on on top

783
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:26,760
of that and we still don't have any real

784
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:28,260
answer about the wage there like she

785
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,980
thinks according to her the best

786
00:29:28,260 --> 00:29:34,260
information she's got that up to 87 the

787
00:29:31,980 --> 00:29:36,960
money paid for these

788
00:29:34,260 --> 00:29:40,500
um to access audible books is going to

789
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:42,539
the platform so just 13 to the the

790
00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:44,100
author um the independent author who's

791
00:29:42,539 --> 00:29:45,779
also the publisher who's also invested

792
00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:47,640
in making that audio book in the first

793
00:29:45,779 --> 00:29:50,279
place now we don't really know if that's

794
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:52,260
true or not because Amazon audible won't

795
00:29:50,279 --> 00:29:55,140
make that information public

796
00:29:52,260 --> 00:29:58,140
and why weren't they because [ __ ] you

797
00:29:55,140 --> 00:29:59,640
that's why they don't have to right and

798
00:29:58,140 --> 00:30:01,140
they benefit from that lack of

799
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,880
transparency

800
00:30:01,140 --> 00:30:05,159
um and it's not just them it's the major

801
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,559
streaming platforms and the big three

802
00:30:05,159 --> 00:30:10,679
record labels who control almost 70 of

803
00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:13,200
the global recorded um music industry

804
00:30:10,679 --> 00:30:15,960
and they own the three music Publishers

805
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:18,299
Who Um can perform almost 60 of global

806
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,640
songwrites I was at a panel at South Bay

807
00:30:18,299 --> 00:30:22,740
yesterday where um the songwriter Autumn

808
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,720
row was there and she'd been preparing

809
00:30:22,740 --> 00:30:26,279
for this she was digging into her

810
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,760
royalty statement

811
00:30:26,279 --> 00:30:32,039
um it was 3 000 pages long

812
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,720
and like utterly incomprehensible she

813
00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:35,399
said she kept looking at it and like

814
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,260
trying to find out what you know okay

815
00:30:35,399 --> 00:30:38,880
that many units what's a unit there's

816
00:30:37,260 --> 00:30:40,559
nothing on this that says what a unit is

817
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,179
contacting the other people are going to

818
00:30:40,559 --> 00:30:43,679
be on the panel saying well what is the

819
00:30:42,179 --> 00:30:45,720
unit and like there must be a key here

820
00:30:43,679 --> 00:30:47,940
somewhere just opacity

821
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:50,820
um for opacity's sake because when there

822
00:30:47,940 --> 00:30:52,380
is opacity then people can't find out if

823
00:30:50,820 --> 00:30:54,059
there is a mistake

824
00:30:52,380 --> 00:30:56,279
um and then that operates obviously to

825
00:30:54,059 --> 00:30:59,460
the benefit of these corporations

826
00:30:56,279 --> 00:31:01,500
so the fact that all of these companies

827
00:30:59,460 --> 00:31:03,360
throughout the creative Industries do

828
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:05,760
not adequately and transparently report

829
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:08,279
to creative workers on what are

830
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:11,039
essentially their paychecks and you're

831
00:31:08,279 --> 00:31:13,080
told to just trust them like that's

832
00:31:11,039 --> 00:31:15,419
really kind of incredible when you think

833
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:18,299
about it particularly when we see that

834
00:31:15,419 --> 00:31:21,480
there's this extraordinary history of of

835
00:31:18,299 --> 00:31:23,640
mistakes and of deliberate fraud

836
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,620
um you know when the when the Beatles

837
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,419
were playing they had a terrible record

838
00:31:25,620 --> 00:31:29,340
contract at the start they had to split

839
00:31:27,419 --> 00:31:31,440
a penny per album between the four of

840
00:31:29,340 --> 00:31:34,679
them plus their manager

841
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,419
um and then they were still and they had

842
00:31:34,679 --> 00:31:39,120
all kinds of deductions on top of that

843
00:31:36,419 --> 00:31:40,740
and then the the record plant was still

844
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,480
running like a third shift where they

845
00:31:40,740 --> 00:31:43,740
would make a whole bunch of other

846
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,320
records that they didn't even have to

847
00:31:43,740 --> 00:31:48,059
pay that tiny royalty on so we know that

848
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,220
these frauds happen and we need

849
00:31:48,059 --> 00:31:51,840
transparency to to do something about it

850
00:31:50,220 --> 00:31:53,760
and here

851
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,620
um I always think of the the artist

852
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,720
Molly Crabapple

853
00:31:55,620 --> 00:31:59,039
um when she talked talks about what

854
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,559
opacity does

855
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:04,860
and she says not talking about money is

856
00:32:01,559 --> 00:32:06,360
a tool of class war like a a culture

857
00:32:04,860 --> 00:32:08,580
that forbids employees from comparing

858
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,080
salaries helps companies pay women and

859
00:32:08,580 --> 00:32:12,899
minorities less

860
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:15,000
and it helps them pay everybody's less

861
00:32:12,899 --> 00:32:16,980
if they're if their project is to

862
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,520
maximize value for their um for their

863
00:32:16,980 --> 00:32:22,260
shareholders and that's what it takes

864
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,179
um it's extraordinary

865
00:32:22,260 --> 00:32:26,880
um we looked when we were researching

866
00:32:24,179 --> 00:32:29,460
this we came across one La based um

867
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:32,580
auditing firm that had done tens of

868
00:32:29,460 --> 00:32:35,340
thousands of audits mostly of of record

869
00:32:32,580 --> 00:32:38,820
labels and in those tens of thousands of

870
00:32:35,340 --> 00:32:40,919
audits they had only once only once

871
00:32:38,820 --> 00:32:41,760
found an era that was in the artist's

872
00:32:40,919 --> 00:32:44,580
favor

873
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,080
so some kind of isolated probability

874
00:32:44,580 --> 00:32:47,340
storm going on there it looks like the

875
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,640
kind of thing that we should definitely

876
00:32:47,340 --> 00:32:53,760
be able to to to look into more closely

877
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:55,679
so we do require transparency when it

878
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:59,460
comes to protecting investors

879
00:32:55,679 --> 00:33:01,260
right like if there is a a a material

880
00:32:59,460 --> 00:33:03,059
matter that's going to affect a share

881
00:33:01,260 --> 00:33:06,000
price the company's got all kinds of

882
00:33:03,059 --> 00:33:08,399
reporting obligations and um and so on

883
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:12,059
so why do we do that for investors and

884
00:33:08,399 --> 00:33:13,980
not for artists well the answer is

885
00:33:12,059 --> 00:33:16,380
obvious right it's the same answer as

886
00:33:13,980 --> 00:33:19,140
always the purpose of a system as

887
00:33:16,380 --> 00:33:21,600
Stafford beer says is what it does

888
00:33:19,140 --> 00:33:23,700
and um whenever we want to understand

889
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,679
why something works the the way that it

890
00:33:23,700 --> 00:33:28,460
does despite really obvious shortcomings

891
00:33:25,679 --> 00:33:31,799
the trick is to look at who's winning

892
00:33:28,460 --> 00:33:34,559
and who's losing

893
00:33:31,799 --> 00:33:36,000
um we do have some some great uh green

894
00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:39,659
shoots about how we can introduce

895
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,860
transparency here in the EU in 2019 they

896
00:33:39,659 --> 00:33:44,279
introduced the digital single Market

897
00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:45,840
directive which mandates that artists

898
00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:48,000
and performers in each member State get

899
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,860
new rides to find out how their works

900
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,140
are being used what kind of revenues

901
00:33:49,860 --> 00:33:53,299
coming in and how their share is

902
00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:55,740
calculated

903
00:33:53,299 --> 00:33:57,600
implementation is tricky because in each

904
00:33:55,740 --> 00:33:59,940
each member State

905
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:03,000
um these powerful lobbyists are white

906
00:33:59,940 --> 00:34:04,919
anting the process to to undermine the

907
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,960
transparency that is actually required

908
00:34:04,919 --> 00:34:08,879
but it's absolutely

909
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,379
um you know a step in the right

910
00:34:08,879 --> 00:34:13,460
direction

911
00:34:10,379 --> 00:34:16,919
uh next interoperability of course

912
00:34:13,460 --> 00:34:18,419
fundamental to the open ethos and it's

913
00:34:16,919 --> 00:34:20,820
going to be absolutely critical to

914
00:34:18,419 --> 00:34:23,879
defeating choke point capitalism in both

915
00:34:20,820 --> 00:34:26,399
sort of narrow and broader senses of it

916
00:34:23,879 --> 00:34:28,919
digital Rights Management is obviously a

917
00:34:26,399 --> 00:34:31,139
key way to achieving a choke point to

918
00:34:28,919 --> 00:34:33,000
locking your your users and your

919
00:34:31,139 --> 00:34:34,740
suppliers in so that you can convert one

920
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:37,919
of those supposedly temporary Market

921
00:34:34,740 --> 00:34:40,500
advantages to something more enduring

922
00:34:37,919 --> 00:34:42,060
um we saw that with audible every

923
00:34:40,500 --> 00:34:44,220
audible book has digital Rights

924
00:34:42,060 --> 00:34:46,020
Management attached to it which is why

925
00:34:44,220 --> 00:34:47,879
we did not

926
00:34:46,020 --> 00:34:50,879
um release checkpoint capitalism as an

927
00:34:47,879 --> 00:34:53,220
audio book on on Audible it's available

928
00:34:50,879 --> 00:34:55,260
um on all other platforms so we had to

929
00:34:53,220 --> 00:34:56,580
we had to self-finance that because the

930
00:34:55,260 --> 00:34:57,720
rights to the audiobook weren't worth

931
00:34:56,580 --> 00:34:59,880
anything if you weren't going to make it

932
00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:03,060
available on Audible so we kick-started

933
00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:04,980
it and um we had it read by an amazing

934
00:35:03,060 --> 00:35:06,060
reader Stefan rudnicki who read Ender's

935
00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:07,680
Game as well some of you might have

936
00:35:06,060 --> 00:35:09,119
listened to that

937
00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,500
um and

938
00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:11,880
um we did a few little stunts as well

939
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:14,640
there is a little part of it that's

940
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:16,619
available on Audible we just um we we

941
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,540
package the Standalone chapter about

942
00:35:16,619 --> 00:35:20,760
their terrible terrible abuses as a

943
00:35:18,540 --> 00:35:22,800
standalone audible exclusive and made

944
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,780
that available

945
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,099
um uh we were a bit shocked today we

946
00:35:24,780 --> 00:35:27,480
were looking at this and we'd sold a few

947
00:35:26,099 --> 00:35:30,480
hundred copies of it so I feel a little

948
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:32,760
bad about that but um we did that and we

949
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,920
also we we took the the chapter on

950
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:38,820
Spotify as most egregious abuses and we

951
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:40,440
made that available on Spotify as well

952
00:35:38,820 --> 00:35:42,300
um the reason why these lock-ins work is

953
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:44,579
nobody wants to split up their their

954
00:35:42,300 --> 00:35:46,500
libraries and nobody wants to split up

955
00:35:44,579 --> 00:35:48,119
their friend group you know

956
00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:51,000
um leaving Facebook doesn't just mean

957
00:35:48,119 --> 00:35:53,280
you leave Facebook it means that you you

958
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:55,920
risk um losing access to your social

959
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:58,500
networks your Communications networks

960
00:35:55,920 --> 00:36:00,720
um I haven't had Facebook since 2008 or

961
00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:02,760
2009 and there's a lot of barbecues that

962
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:04,380
you end up just not knowing about

963
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,700
because

964
00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:08,099
um you're not there where everybody else

965
00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:11,099
is getting the invitation

966
00:36:08,099 --> 00:36:13,920
but I would argue we need more than a

967
00:36:11,099 --> 00:36:15,839
right to to bypass DRM we need positive

968
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,540
rights as well

969
00:36:15,839 --> 00:36:20,160
um rights of access rights and so this

970
00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:21,359
is maybe a broader sense of interoper

971
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:23,780
operability

972
00:36:21,359 --> 00:36:26,520
and Corey's called for a right to exit

973
00:36:23,780 --> 00:36:28,380
freedom to exit

974
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,320
um just the right to leave a syncing

975
00:36:28,380 --> 00:36:33,540
platform while continuing stay connected

976
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,820
to the communities that you left behind

977
00:36:33,540 --> 00:36:40,400
enjoy the media and apps that you bought

978
00:36:35,820 --> 00:36:40,400
and preserve the data that you created

979
00:36:41,460 --> 00:36:46,920
the open ethosis as well has such a

980
00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:49,140
strong focus on equity and there's very

981
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,079
little room for the predatory middlemen

982
00:36:49,140 --> 00:36:54,599
that are positioning themselves to

983
00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:55,579
um sit between

984
00:36:54,599 --> 00:36:58,800
um

985
00:36:55,579 --> 00:37:01,260
audiences and creators or or buyers and

986
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:04,320
sellers in order to sort of use their

987
00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:06,839
power to immediate access to extract

988
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,579
um an unfair share of value

989
00:37:06,839 --> 00:37:10,920
and

990
00:37:08,579 --> 00:37:14,040
what Open Access really does is promote

991
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:16,859
Equity regardless of socioeconomic

992
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,720
advantage or disadvantage

993
00:37:16,859 --> 00:37:21,240
um and that's that's really missing in

994
00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:22,560
the creative Industries where we do see

995
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:24,560
that even if you do have enough

996
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:28,560
transparency to find out what's going on

997
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:31,079
you might um you and and everything is

998
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:33,300
above board you're still very likely to

999
00:37:31,079 --> 00:37:37,079
lack the bargaining power to be able to

1000
00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:39,480
to strike a a fair deal it's only a few

1001
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:42,240
Superstars like Taylor Swift who can

1002
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:45,240
really negotiate on those um standard

1003
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:46,260
terms of contract terms of of doing

1004
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:49,500
business

1005
00:37:46,260 --> 00:37:51,240
and we can also find inspiration to to

1006
00:37:49,500 --> 00:37:53,160
to find out how we can introduce more

1007
00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:56,280
equity and widen choke points out

1008
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:58,020
through the DSM directive again and that

1009
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:01,500
mandated again

1010
00:37:58,020 --> 00:38:03,420
um minimum rights effectively minimum

1011
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:05,160
wages for Creative workers in the form

1012
00:38:03,420 --> 00:38:06,119
of

1013
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:07,800
um

1014
00:38:06,119 --> 00:38:10,680
um rights to fair and reasonable

1015
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,420
remuneration and it's really exciting to

1016
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,119
see the Australian government in the

1017
00:38:12,420 --> 00:38:17,400
incredible cultural policy that was

1018
00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:20,700
um published in uh January I think it

1019
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:22,380
was January to see that

1020
00:38:20,700 --> 00:38:24,359
um they're also talking about you know

1021
00:38:22,380 --> 00:38:28,140
maybe having awards for Creative workers

1022
00:38:24,359 --> 00:38:30,359
bringing more of the um the ideas and

1023
00:38:28,140 --> 00:38:32,520
protections of the employment law to

1024
00:38:30,359 --> 00:38:35,339
treat Arts work as as real work which of

1025
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:37,560
course that it is in the EU as well

1026
00:38:35,339 --> 00:38:39,119
obviously another way in which they're

1027
00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,599
leveling the playing field in terms of

1028
00:38:39,119 --> 00:38:44,640
equity with use it or lose it rights

1029
00:38:42,599 --> 00:38:46,020
um creative workers are often and and

1030
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,599
you know many other kinds of workers

1031
00:38:46,020 --> 00:38:50,579
include including programmers required

1032
00:38:48,599 --> 00:38:53,579
to sign away their copyrights as a

1033
00:38:50,579 --> 00:38:55,200
condition of of doing business but those

1034
00:38:53,579 --> 00:38:57,180
those copyrights that's a really long

1035
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,980
time so in the case of computer code

1036
00:38:57,180 --> 00:39:01,560
it's your entire lifetime plus another

1037
00:38:58,980 --> 00:39:03,300
70 years after that there's like three

1038
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,980
generations of people that have to kind

1039
00:39:03,300 --> 00:39:07,260
of figure that out

1040
00:39:04,980 --> 00:39:09,300
um nearly always

1041
00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:11,460
um the life of the copyright outlasts

1042
00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:13,079
the commercial interest in the work and

1043
00:39:11,460 --> 00:39:15,359
so this is where it can be really

1044
00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:17,220
helpful to have reversion rates you have

1045
00:39:15,359 --> 00:39:19,440
an entitlement to get the work back

1046
00:39:17,220 --> 00:39:21,180
where it's not being used if it's not

1047
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,800
being reasonably exploited

1048
00:39:21,180 --> 00:39:24,180
um then the progenitor of that work

1049
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,300
should have the right to Chlor it back

1050
00:39:24,180 --> 00:39:30,420
and then that promotes not only new ways

1051
00:39:27,300 --> 00:39:33,660
of getting creators paid but also helps

1052
00:39:30,420 --> 00:39:35,280
us promote access and that's um

1053
00:39:33,660 --> 00:39:36,660
something that we've been doing with the

1054
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,599
untapped project that I think some of

1055
00:39:36,660 --> 00:39:41,820
you are familiar with where we um

1056
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:43,440
another lockdown project where we

1057
00:39:41,820 --> 00:39:47,280
decided to create our own pumpkin house

1058
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:49,020
and republish 161 form really out of

1059
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,060
print but really culturally important

1060
00:39:49,020 --> 00:39:53,040
Australian books we wanted to make sure

1061
00:39:51,060 --> 00:39:54,540
that they weren't going to be lost

1062
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,099
and

1063
00:39:54,540 --> 00:39:58,020
um they um you know they included

1064
00:39:56,099 --> 00:40:00,060
something like half a dozen um former

1065
00:39:58,020 --> 00:40:02,579
winners of the Mars Franklin award some

1066
00:40:00,060 --> 00:40:05,579
amazing amazing books

1067
00:40:02,579 --> 00:40:08,280
um and uh

1068
00:40:05,579 --> 00:40:10,859
the the writers when they they were able

1069
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,140
to exercise out of print Clauses to to

1070
00:40:10,859 --> 00:40:15,240
get those rights back they were able to

1071
00:40:13,140 --> 00:40:16,859
then get a new Revenue stream because we

1072
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:18,780
were licensing them and working them

1073
00:40:16,859 --> 00:40:21,240
available as e-books to license them for

1074
00:40:18,780 --> 00:40:22,920
sale but also for use in libraries and

1075
00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:24,960
we were ensuring access to a new group

1076
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,839
of people so we can see that by

1077
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:30,839
improving Equity we can find ways of of

1078
00:40:27,839 --> 00:40:33,440
win-win making the pie bigger

1079
00:40:30,839 --> 00:40:33,440
um for everybody

1080
00:40:33,540 --> 00:40:38,520
um I also want to talk about stewardship

1081
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:40,320
as a really uh what is something that I

1082
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,480
think of as a core value of the open

1083
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,880
movement and something that really sets

1084
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,619
it apart because you know stewardship is

1085
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:48,839
distinct from ownership

1086
00:40:46,619 --> 00:40:50,520
and of course ownership is you know

1087
00:40:48,839 --> 00:40:53,160
fundamental to enforcing things like

1088
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:56,760
copy left licenses but the community

1089
00:40:53,160 --> 00:41:00,480
ethos very often is one of thinking

1090
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,260
about how to protect and preserve

1091
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,140
um

1092
00:41:01,260 --> 00:41:05,940
um and and ensure continuity for for for

1093
00:41:04,140 --> 00:41:08,400
future people

1094
00:41:05,940 --> 00:41:09,960
um of different kinds of work

1095
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,859
and

1096
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:13,020
um

1097
00:41:10,859 --> 00:41:15,240
this I think is why the open movement is

1098
00:41:13,020 --> 00:41:17,579
so closely tied so closely aligned to

1099
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:19,320
the preservation movement

1100
00:41:17,579 --> 00:41:21,660
um and it also makes me think of this

1101
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,359
there's quite like a a First Nations

1102
00:41:21,660 --> 00:41:25,740
idea of of stewardship like stewardship

1103
00:41:24,359 --> 00:41:28,380
of the land

1104
00:41:25,740 --> 00:41:31,260
um in in ways that that do try and

1105
00:41:28,380 --> 00:41:34,859
promote sustainability and

1106
00:41:31,260 --> 00:41:36,780
um and health and and and

1107
00:41:34,859 --> 00:41:38,880
um ongoing viability which is very very

1108
00:41:36,780 --> 00:41:41,579
different to the very extractive model

1109
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:43,079
of ownership that we've been um talking

1110
00:41:41,579 --> 00:41:44,339
about so far today

1111
00:41:43,079 --> 00:41:47,760
and so

1112
00:41:44,339 --> 00:41:51,480
I think when we when we start thinking

1113
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:53,940
about stewardship then it it nudges us

1114
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:56,700
to think about well who's got what and

1115
00:41:53,940 --> 00:41:59,820
who needs what for this to continue on a

1116
00:41:56,700 --> 00:42:02,700
sustainable footing and what we we it it

1117
00:41:59,820 --> 00:42:04,980
it it it it really brings it so close to

1118
00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:06,660
home that the Arts Industries in

1119
00:42:04,980 --> 00:42:09,180
particular but other Industries too are

1120
00:42:06,660 --> 00:42:10,619
becoming less and less sustainable so if

1121
00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:12,900
we want to keep having them we're going

1122
00:42:10,619 --> 00:42:14,280
to have to think about ways of doing it

1123
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:18,180
differently

1124
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:20,040
and so we talk about this about you know

1125
00:42:18,180 --> 00:42:22,020
again like how ways in which you can use

1126
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,599
things like reversion rights

1127
00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:27,119
um to to both in in you know to fulfill

1128
00:42:24,599 --> 00:42:29,700
copyrights twin aims of helping

1129
00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:32,520
recognize and reward creators but also

1130
00:42:29,700 --> 00:42:35,780
to ensure the widest possible access to

1131
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,780
knowledge and culture

1132
00:42:36,540 --> 00:42:39,780
um

1133
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:41,820
and self-determination is another one

1134
00:42:39,780 --> 00:42:45,000
that I wanted to talk about as being

1135
00:42:41,820 --> 00:42:48,740
really critical and another core open

1136
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:50,940
value because open gives people

1137
00:42:48,740 --> 00:42:53,280
opportunities to

1138
00:42:50,940 --> 00:42:54,599
to look and to Tinker and to see if

1139
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:56,520
something doesn't work for them and to

1140
00:42:54,599 --> 00:42:58,560
make it different so that it does work

1141
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,940
for them so to change the material

1142
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,700
conditions

1143
00:42:59,940 --> 00:43:06,480
um of of your life and your environment

1144
00:43:02,700 --> 00:43:07,920
and the corporations who are so

1145
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:11,099
determinately choke pointing their

1146
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:13,520
Industries uh deliberately depriving us

1147
00:43:11,099 --> 00:43:16,500
of the ability to do exactly that

1148
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:19,079
whether it's by locking us into their

1149
00:43:16,500 --> 00:43:21,420
silos their world Gardens or whether

1150
00:43:19,079 --> 00:43:23,220
it's by eliminating competitors who

1151
00:43:21,420 --> 00:43:25,500
might offer us a different choice that

1152
00:43:23,220 --> 00:43:27,300
could work better for our needs and of

1153
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:29,280
course if we've learned anything from

1154
00:43:27,300 --> 00:43:32,160
the open movement it's that people have

1155
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:34,619
a lot of very different needs one size

1156
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,700
doesn't fit all in in almost any

1157
00:43:34,619 --> 00:43:37,380
category

1158
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:38,700
Corey puts it really beautifully I think

1159
00:43:37,380 --> 00:43:41,700
when he says

1160
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:43,560
competition isn't about making the

1161
00:43:41,700 --> 00:43:46,079
market efficient

1162
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:48,660
it's not even about choice

1163
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:51,000
it's about self-determination

1164
00:43:48,660 --> 00:43:53,220
weakening the power of intermediaries

1165
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:55,200
who would otherwise take away our

1166
00:43:53,220 --> 00:43:57,900
ability to lead our creative and human

1167
00:43:55,200 --> 00:44:01,740
lives in a way of our choosing

1168
00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:04,500
who would and do Force us to arrange our

1169
00:44:01,740 --> 00:44:07,800
lives to benefit their shareholders no

1170
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:09,839
matter how badly that works for us

1171
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,640
now big bug bear of mine I don't think

1172
00:44:09,839 --> 00:44:13,319
humans are very good at figuring out

1173
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:16,140
what are the conditions for a good life

1174
00:44:13,319 --> 00:44:18,720
if we do if we were then we would

1175
00:44:16,140 --> 00:44:20,520
definitely not have email

1176
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:22,200
um and don't do any talk to me about

1177
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,579
slack which is just Canadian email and

1178
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,680
you're not gonna you're not going to

1179
00:44:23,579 --> 00:44:27,900
convince me otherwise

1180
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:31,319
um you know it's apocryphal the idea

1181
00:44:27,900 --> 00:44:33,300
that that frogs in a slowly warming pan

1182
00:44:31,319 --> 00:44:34,740
of water won't jump out if it's warmed

1183
00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:37,920
up slowly enough they get hot and they

1184
00:44:34,740 --> 00:44:40,200
jump out humans though I think

1185
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:43,319
um really are like those frogs

1186
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:45,359
um in that we can we we are very

1187
00:44:43,319 --> 00:44:47,640
resilient very adaptable but that means

1188
00:44:45,359 --> 00:44:49,200
that as life kind of steadily gets worse

1189
00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:51,359
and the conditions of that get worse we

1190
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:53,700
don't necessarily jump out of the pot

1191
00:44:51,359 --> 00:44:56,819
but I think it is clear that too much of

1192
00:44:53,700 --> 00:45:00,180
our lives are not around making the

1193
00:44:56,819 --> 00:45:03,960
world work for us as humans to to lead

1194
00:45:00,180 --> 00:45:06,180
good lives to flourish but around

1195
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:09,900
um the maximum profits for investors and

1196
00:45:06,180 --> 00:45:12,000
maximum extraction and so the ability to

1197
00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:14,339
change those conditions

1198
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,819
um really seems critical to widen intro

1199
00:45:14,339 --> 00:45:16,819
points out

1200
00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:21,599
um I

1201
00:45:18,780 --> 00:45:23,819
can see that um I'm I'm I'm running out

1202
00:45:21,599 --> 00:45:25,560
of time so I'll talk quite briefly just

1203
00:45:23,819 --> 00:45:28,079
this last little bit I want to talk

1204
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:30,599
about collectivity as well and this is I

1205
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:32,400
think that my most um my favorite part

1206
00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:34,319
of the book and the certainly the most

1207
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,540
inspiring and hopeful part there were so

1208
00:45:34,319 --> 00:45:38,520
many amazing stories that we found of

1209
00:45:36,540 --> 00:45:41,160
how even like the most atomized and

1210
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:42,599
Powerless people were able to by working

1211
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:46,319
together

1212
00:45:42,599 --> 00:45:48,660
um improve and and even flip the tables

1213
00:45:46,319 --> 00:45:51,420
on the really powerful corporations that

1214
00:45:48,660 --> 00:45:52,920
that they had been locked into one of my

1215
00:45:51,420 --> 00:45:55,560
favorite stories is around the Uber

1216
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:57,300
drivers who were you know deprived of of

1217
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,740
access to Justice because they were

1218
00:45:57,300 --> 00:46:00,119
locked into contracts that prohibited

1219
00:45:58,740 --> 00:46:02,099
them from bringing class actions

1220
00:46:00,119 --> 00:46:03,859
individual lawsuits were just not

1221
00:46:02,099 --> 00:46:07,200
feasible and they were locked into

1222
00:46:03,859 --> 00:46:09,060
mandatory commercial arbitration

1223
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:11,700
the mandatory commercial arbitration

1224
00:46:09,060 --> 00:46:13,319
works really well for these firms when

1225
00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:16,079
um it's just a couple of people bringing

1226
00:46:13,319 --> 00:46:19,020
them but these thousands and thousands

1227
00:46:16,079 --> 00:46:21,420
of Uber drivers coordinated to all bring

1228
00:46:19,020 --> 00:46:23,640
um binding commercial arbitration

1229
00:46:21,420 --> 00:46:25,380
um and matters all at the same time and

1230
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,760
Uber ran went running to the court to

1231
00:46:25,380 --> 00:46:28,859
say oh my goodness this is so unfair

1232
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,599
they ended up having to settle with

1233
00:46:28,859 --> 00:46:32,040
their drivers for almost 150 million

1234
00:46:30,599 --> 00:46:33,720
dollars which is probably more expensive

1235
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,640
than it would have been had it been a

1236
00:46:33,720 --> 00:46:37,680
class action

1237
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:40,040
um The Writer's Guild of America strike

1238
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:43,680
was also just such a

1239
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:45,480
such an uh such a great story we were

1240
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:47,400
working with people like David Goodman

1241
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,319
who was the president of of the guild at

1242
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:53,760
the time the strike was going on there

1243
00:46:49,319 --> 00:46:56,760
were um people abuses in the um the

1244
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:59,160
talent agency arena in Hollywood four

1245
00:46:56,760 --> 00:47:01,079
big agencies had um kind of cornered the

1246
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,000
market for all the talent and they'd set

1247
00:47:01,079 --> 00:47:04,920
up these new structures so that they

1248
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,020
were um lining their own nests

1249
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,460
Feathering their own nests at the um at

1250
00:47:07,020 --> 00:47:09,960
the sake of the creators that they were

1251
00:47:08,460 --> 00:47:12,240
supposed to represent and in the Golden

1252
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,920
Age of Television Riders were seeing

1253
00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:16,260
that their conditions were worsening and

1254
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,579
worsening and so

1255
00:47:16,260 --> 00:47:18,960
um you know they they thought they

1256
00:47:17,579 --> 00:47:22,260
couldn't do anything about this and then

1257
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:25,200
finally they realized that the the

1258
00:47:22,260 --> 00:47:27,420
um the agencies that only had the power

1259
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:30,180
that the writers gave them because you

1260
00:47:27,420 --> 00:47:31,980
can have Hollywood without agents but

1261
00:47:30,180 --> 00:47:33,960
you can't have Hollywood without Riders

1262
00:47:31,980 --> 00:47:35,520
and so they came up with a new code of

1263
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,920
conduct that got rid of all of these

1264
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,359
abuses and they said

1265
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,880
um that's it

1266
00:47:39,359 --> 00:47:44,700
um we are going to

1267
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:47,099
um fire everybody who doesn't comply

1268
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:49,260
with that code of conduct and then in a

1269
00:47:47,099 --> 00:47:51,660
single week 7 000 Hollywood

1270
00:47:49,260 --> 00:47:53,220
um Riders fired their agents and it was

1271
00:47:51,660 --> 00:47:55,800
brutal like they ground their strikeout

1272
00:47:53,220 --> 00:47:58,440
for 22 months but eventually everybody

1273
00:47:55,800 --> 00:48:01,500
rolled over and they they changed their

1274
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,460
conditions of their work

1275
00:48:01,500 --> 00:48:05,220
um

1276
00:48:02,460 --> 00:48:07,440
more broadly I think we need a movement

1277
00:48:05,220 --> 00:48:08,880
um and that's that's that the the most

1278
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:11,819
critical thing

1279
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:15,480
um the open movement

1280
00:48:11,819 --> 00:48:16,500
is I mean this conference I suppose more

1281
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:18,540
than anything that people have been

1282
00:48:16,500 --> 00:48:19,740
brought together for it and like the the

1283
00:48:18,540 --> 00:48:21,839
other conference but I think it's really

1284
00:48:19,740 --> 00:48:23,160
it's growing over time and spreading and

1285
00:48:21,839 --> 00:48:24,300
expanding and bringing in different

1286
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:27,540
people

1287
00:48:24,300 --> 00:48:28,920
um we see that open is a movement

1288
00:48:27,540 --> 00:48:31,200
um that the folks who are developing

1289
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:34,200
free and open source software are part

1290
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:36,540
of the same fight as the ones promoting

1291
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:39,780
open government or open education open

1292
00:48:36,540 --> 00:48:41,579
Hardware the um the the gallerian

1293
00:48:39,780 --> 00:48:43,740
library and Museum folks who are working

1294
00:48:41,579 --> 00:48:45,839
on opening up their Collections and

1295
00:48:43,740 --> 00:48:48,780
bringing the open ethos

1296
00:48:45,839 --> 00:48:51,800
um to to development and access

1297
00:48:48,780 --> 00:48:54,180
but I really want to end by by

1298
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:56,760
encouraging us to see that the open

1299
00:48:54,180 --> 00:48:58,920
movement is also part of a broader

1300
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:03,720
movement against corporate concentration

1301
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:06,180
that this too is part of the same fight

1302
00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:08,700
um the strip mining of creative workers

1303
00:49:06,180 --> 00:49:10,800
is like

1304
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:14,040
part of that broader project in service

1305
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,960
of oligarchy that um that we're all

1306
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,700
subject to it's not just you know

1307
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,020
independent creators and producers who

1308
00:49:17,700 --> 00:49:21,300
are being screwed over but it's almost

1309
00:49:19,020 --> 00:49:22,560
everybody and if they haven't come for

1310
00:49:21,300 --> 00:49:25,800
you yet it's just because they haven't

1311
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:27,780
had time we we have a section in the

1312
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,819
right right at the end of the book where

1313
00:49:27,780 --> 00:49:32,579
we say that you know the the tech

1314
00:49:29,819 --> 00:49:34,800
industry treats its techies better than

1315
00:49:32,579 --> 00:49:36,960
it treats the Arts workers because it

1316
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:38,880
has to right but as soon as they find a

1317
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:40,440
way or as soon as the conditions change

1318
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,700
where they don't have to then the

1319
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,680
techies are going to find themselves in

1320
00:49:41,700 --> 00:49:45,540
exactly the same position and we read

1321
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:48,060
that out at South by Southwest on Friday

1322
00:49:45,540 --> 00:49:50,160
and we felt very prescient because you

1323
00:49:48,060 --> 00:49:51,720
know um you know there's blood on the

1324
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:54,060
walls there are tens of thousands of

1325
00:49:51,720 --> 00:49:56,160
tech workers who are suddenly

1326
00:49:54,060 --> 00:49:58,319
um out of work and and struggling to

1327
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,940
figure out what's going to happen next

1328
00:49:58,319 --> 00:50:02,160
and so

1329
00:49:59,940 --> 00:50:04,560
um things get worse for all of us when

1330
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,400
corporations Shake us down

1331
00:50:04,560 --> 00:50:07,619
um

1332
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:10,200
when wealth gets funneled inexorably

1333
00:50:07,619 --> 00:50:12,180
towards the rich where we're deprived of

1334
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:14,579
of the ability

1335
00:50:12,180 --> 00:50:17,700
um to self-determine to change the the

1336
00:50:14,579 --> 00:50:20,040
conditions of our life by tinkering

1337
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:22,079
um we don't have any transparency to

1338
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:24,480
find out you know what is being done

1339
00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:28,800
what is being taken to us

1340
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:31,140
um and we're all part of the same fight

1341
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,880
but people ask me people often ask me

1342
00:50:31,140 --> 00:50:35,400
what is it

1343
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:37,140
um but what is it how do we start how do

1344
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,359
we start to change because you know it

1345
00:50:37,140 --> 00:50:41,099
feels like such a big project

1346
00:50:39,359 --> 00:50:41,940
um and that's and that's absolutely

1347
00:50:41,099 --> 00:50:44,520
right

1348
00:50:41,940 --> 00:50:47,040
um you know if if you want to get to a

1349
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:49,200
sustainable Fair world where there's

1350
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:51,900
enough for everybody instead of um

1351
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,400
violent extracting by a very few over

1352
00:50:51,900 --> 00:50:54,780
the very many

1353
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,000
um if you want to get there you wouldn't

1354
00:50:54,780 --> 00:50:58,260
start you wouldn't start from here but

1355
00:50:57,000 --> 00:51:00,119
we have to start from here and we are

1356
00:50:58,260 --> 00:51:03,059
starting from here and I think everybody

1357
00:51:00,119 --> 00:51:06,119
in in the open movement is doing exactly

1358
00:51:03,059 --> 00:51:08,040
what I think is the key which is to to

1359
00:51:06,119 --> 00:51:10,260
build connection and community

1360
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,900
right that's that's the that's the the

1361
00:51:10,260 --> 00:51:15,300
Crux of it it's the

1362
00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:18,300
um this extractive

1363
00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:20,520
um neoliberal uh capitalist economic

1364
00:51:18,300 --> 00:51:21,780
system is designed to isolate us from

1365
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:24,359
one another

1366
00:51:21,780 --> 00:51:26,900
um to keep us disconnected so that we

1367
00:51:24,359 --> 00:51:30,599
have that Hollow emptiness inside of us

1368
00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:32,400
and that's not a bug it's it's a feature

1369
00:51:30,599 --> 00:51:34,380
right we're supposed to feel empty

1370
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,540
inside because then we will fill it with

1371
00:51:34,380 --> 00:51:39,660
ever more production and ever more

1372
00:51:36,540 --> 00:51:42,059
consumption so building Community having

1373
00:51:39,660 --> 00:51:43,619
conversations with people understanding

1374
00:51:42,059 --> 00:51:44,700
their fight and how it fits in with

1375
00:51:43,619 --> 00:51:46,680
yours

1376
00:51:44,700 --> 00:51:50,220
um these are all these are all the first

1377
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:52,380
bites towards uh eating the elephant

1378
00:51:50,220 --> 00:51:53,940
um and I'm so grateful to everybody who

1379
00:51:52,380 --> 00:51:55,440
is here today and active in these

1380
00:51:53,940 --> 00:51:57,359
movements for everything that you do

1381
00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:59,280
towards that

1382
00:51:57,359 --> 00:52:01,140
um thank you so much for listening and

1383
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,880
for all of the support for the book and

1384
00:52:01,140 --> 00:52:04,830
for inviting me along to speak to you

1385
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:15,940
tonight

1386
00:52:04,830 --> 00:52:15,940
[Applause]