foreign
[Music]
ER will quite happily lecture anyone for
hours on the finer points of grammar
style information architecture and
content strategy if only people will
stand still long enough
today will be a captive audience while
Lana explains how to build a
documentation team from scratch please
welcome Lana
[Applause]
thank you David I'd like to begin by
acknowledging the traditional owners of
the land on which I'm giving this talk
today and I'd like to pay my respects to
their Elders past present and emerging
I'd also like to acknowledge that this
land which I benefit from occupying was
stolen and that sovereignty was never
ceded by the warundry why we're wrong of
colon Nations
so generally speaking I don't like to
start Talks by talking about myself
however in this case I think it's
probably relevant to start by letting
you know who I am why I'm qualified to
talk about this stuff
um and yeah why I'm here
so I've got multiple management degrees
including an MBA that I completed in
2019
. so that means I've learned a whole lot
of management Theory
perhaps more importantly though I've
managed a number of different
documentation teams throughout my career
so my first team started with four
people and I ended up with 13. my second
team started with two people including
me and ended up with nine
my third team was an open source
community group which was an elected
position staffed entirely with
volunteers
I can and I have given entire talks
about Management in open source
situations but I am not going to go into
that level of detail here let's just say
that that experience has definitely
influenced my management style in many
ways mostly for the better
my fourth team was a tiny little
Australian startup that started with me
as the sole writer and grooter too
before the company fell over
finally my fifth and current team at
timescale started with me as the sole
writer for about seven months and is now
currently sitting at three where's the
intention of continuing to grow
and if you hear this talk and you are
interested in coming to join us at
timescale I'll have a link for you at
the end where you can take a look at our
current openings
so
as with technical documentation when you
are planning to start a docs team you
need to start with planning this is
important if you're a sole author madly
trying to convince management that you
need help or if you just got that phone
call that says you can begin hiring
even if you already have a team member
or two it's not too late to take
yourself through this planning process
because the information and insight that
you get from the process will help as
you continue to grow your team
now this this quote is a little trite
but the sentiment is a good one in
essence you don't want to be thinking of
yourself as the head of a Great and
Mighty team beloved and feared in in
equal measure by your subordinates it is
important to think about your team as
the people who enable you to do your
best work
remember that without your team you are
never going to be able to take a
vacation
so the first thing I want to encourage
you to do is to think about what kind of
manager you want to be
this plays deeply obviously into your
own personality and style and it's
really important that you're honest with
yourself at this this point
don't set your team up in such a way
that they need to come to you to ask for
each work item if you're the kind of
person who doesn't like being
interrupted a lot or if you work in a
different time zone
make sure that your team structure and
processes work for you and for your
management style
with that in mind I like to think of my
team Less in terms of hierarchies and
More in terms of Voltron
I am hoping there's a few 90s kids in
the audience who remember how this works
the essence is though for those who are
not familiar with the cartoon the four
explorers each formed a limb of the
giant robot Voltron with the fifth
Explorer forming the head
you all need to work together in equal
parts even though only one of you is the
manager
in this kind of model my team members
know that they can come to me if they
need assistance or guidance but they
also have their own part to play and for
the most part they're able to work out
what they need to do next without having
to come back and ask me
this allows them to work on their own
tasks at their own pace and it also
means I have the freedom and time to
work on work to work deeply on my own
tasks when I need to as well
this is especially important for
distributed teams where you might have
people working during hours when you and
sometimes the rest of the team are
asleep
so next you need to start thinking about
how you want to structure your team
mostly this comes down to what your
business looks like if you're writing
documentation for multiple products then
you might want specialized writers for
each product
or you might consider working more on a
Services model where writers are
assigned to projects as they come up
that means you probably that you need
more generalists
you might also need to think a little
larger than you expect at this stage you
might only have approval for one writer
now but what will things look like when
you have approval for five or ten or
Twenty
how will people grow and change within
your docs organization how will you
assign writers to tasks what happens if
someone is sick or takes an extended
vacation how can you bring in
Specialists such as information
Architects technical editors or content
strategists and how will they fit into
the team
how will your team work with say
front-end developers or documentation
engineers and I'm going to come back to
those topics
when you've had think about the kind of
leader you want to be and the basic
structure you want your team to have
it's time to start looking at the people
you need on your team it's really
important that you don't just hire
clones of yourself and I know that
sounds really obvious but you might
actually be surprised at how hard that
is to do
as an example I give you two fictional
potential technical writers so as I read
these out I want you to think about who
you would prefer to hire for a position
so Kim's references are spectacular you
got along well with her and all her
interviewers got along really well with
her in the room as well they all loved
her
Kim recently completed her degree she
has no substantial experience in the
field
Jane on the other hand has a history of
being productive and her references are
excellent but her interviews were just
not as much fun as Kim's
Jane has held a similar position for
three years
intuitively you might want to hire Kim
just because you got along so well with
her as did all the other interviewers so
she'd fit well into the team right
but objectively we actually have a lot
less information about Kim than we do
about Jane
in the context of hiring you should
probably hire Jane but it could be a
struggle to overcome that intuitive Prof
that intuitive impression sorry that Kim
would just be a better fit
our brains are wired to go for the
intuitive of the intuitive answer and we
actually find making intuitive decisions
a lot more natural in a lot of ways
they're actually more comfortable for us
so they they make us happier
you would probably feel better about
hiring Kim even if you realize in your
brain that that Jane is the is more
likely to succeed
so another way to ensure you hire people
who are not like yourself is to make
sure you're reaching outside of your own
Networks
personally when I've been hiring for a
position I've had a lot of really good
candidates come through the write the
docs community
and it would be very tempting to only
seek candidates through communities like
that because we know them we know we're
going to get highly qualified uh really
engaged candidates and we sort of know
their background a little bit
but think back before you joined this
community or any other community that
you're part of you aren't any less great
at what you did just because you weren't
there
um communities can be prone to a certain
level of group think so if you grab
candidates from wherever you can find
them grab them from all walks of life
all levels of backgrounds and ability
and all different kinds of communities
you'll get a more diverse team
so one of the major takeaways I had from
my MBA Human Resources class
was that interviews are the single worst
way to find out what someone knows
unfortunately we are stuck with
interviews so we have to make the best
of them
there are two main things you can do
start by deciding what the overall
interview process looks like so
screenings panel interviews writing
tests one-on-one interviews all of that
and make sure it stays the same for
every single person you interview for
the position
if you discover that you want to change
things as you're going through the
process that's fine do it for the next
candidate not for this one
uh also the second thing you need to do
is to write down all the questions you
want to ask and make a scorecard to Mark
people's responses against then you use
exactly the same questions for every
single candidate and exactly the same
scorecard for every candidate
consistency is the single most important
thing you can do to make interviews
useful and to make sure that we're not
just wasting everyone's time including
your candidates
so now I gave a version of this talk
many many years ago at an LCA and that
was when I was building team number two
and I recently had a chance to revisit
that talk and in it during The Question
Answer session I struggled openly with
the idea of hiring friends
if I'm honest I still do struggle with
the topic of hiring friends but my
thinking has come a long way since then
and I actually wanted to address the
question again in a more formal way
I have been known to hire the same
people on my teams two or even three
different times across different teams
different companies and it's actually
great you already know the people uh you
know how they work you know their
strengths and weaknesses you know
exactly what kind of team member they're
going to be and how they're going to fit
in however the flip side is they also
know you
they know what to say to please you
they know how much or how little they
need to do to be considered successful
and they know what they can get away
with now hiring your friends is the very
definition of hiring clones of yourself
so I'm not saying don't ever hire your
friends that would be massively
hypocritical of me
um you just need to make sure you go in
with your eyes open I think
make sure you make it very clear to
others on the hiring panel or the people
in your HR team that you know the person
personally
and if you can remove bias from your
interview process as much as possible
so if you're supposed to be conducting
an interview yourself you could have a
peer do it or you could have someone
silently sit in on the interview who
doesn't participate but has your
scorecard has your questions and is
marking making notes and going along and
that way they're checking your responses
making sure that you're not marking them
differently to other candidates
so hopefully by the time you've gone
through a bunch of interviews aside from
being awfully sick of interviewing
you'll have a good idea of who you're
going to hire
s where it's important again to rail a
little bit against your intuition you're
not trying to pick friends together to
the pub with
hire the person that has the most
relevant experience that has the more
appropriate qualifications and was most
able to demonstrate that they have the
right skills even if you didn't get
along all that well with them
it will be really difficult to do and it
might feel like you're going against
your gut and we all hate doing that but
your animal brain is actually trying to
trick you here and you need to tell it
to just keep down and back
so perhaps one of the scariest things
you ever do as a manager is double the
size of your team overnight
hopefully your first hire is someone who
is going to be able to cope with your
fledgling docs team
hopefully they're hopefully you've
managed to explain through the interview
process sort of you know what the
situation is and what they're going to
come up with you really don't want them
turning up on their first day and going
so where's everyone else oh where's the
processes those things don't exist yet
so make sure you've already addressed
those issues before their first day they
know exactly what they're walking into
before your new hire starts put some
time into writing a hiring plan for them
I like to use Google Docs but any tool
will work and just so that they can
comment on it and you can interact with
them a little bit through that the
hiring plan should explain what you're
part of the organization does exactly
how you fit into the larger organization
important people they need to speak to
software and other tools they need to
make sure they can access and probably a
bunch of links out to other important
reading and that kind of thing for them
to complete in their first few days
I also like to specify some broad goals
for the first week first month and first
three months just so that my new hires
feel like they have a little bit of a
plan and a little bit of direction for
those early days don't make the goals
too ambitious
um I usually have things like
understanding the documentation tool
chain installing and using the product
they're going to be documenting getting
their first pull request that kind of
thing
don't be surprised if you're as nervous
on your new hires first day as they are
I always am every single time especially
with a brand new team
uh don't let this mean that you crowd
them though send them an email ahead of
their scheduled start time preferably
the night before to an account that you
know they have access to that might be
their personal email account
you don't need to say much just
reintroduce yourself as their manager
welcome them aboard give them any
essential information they need things
like you know how to get into the
building and find their desk or how to
sign into accounts
and also send them the hiring plan
document you created for them and give
them a note just so we'll go through it
with you in the next day or two this
gives them something to read through and
start digesting even if they don't fully
understand everything in it yet it also
gives them a really good listener names
when they're first meeting people in the
building
so then you can book a meeting with them
late on their first day or in the
morning of their second day when you can
start actually dumping reading material
and that kind of thing on them a little
bit more
one of the first things you're going to
notice with your new hire is that all
the things that you do it's without
thinking about them too much
there's things like checking your GitHub
and chat notifications light grooming of
the backlog that stuff that we just do
all the time without even thinking about
it the way you pull out a pull request
the tags you use to organize and sort
your work tasks the way you reply to
requests from internal and external
contributors and readers even just the
things you check when you're editing a
whole lot of that stuff is probably kept
in your head
and this is all because of the curse of
knowledge
as writers we're familiar with the idea
that the more you know the harder it is
to explain something and so you need to
keep that in mind that it happens with
people management as well
whenever you come up against one of
those little things that you didn't
realize that you did write it down
start with whatever tool you use for
Internal Documentation and Wiki or a
document that other people in your
organization can access and later on you
can consider turning it into something
more formal
the most important thing is that your
team members as your team grows can go
and look that up and find out and
whatever the answer to whatever
questions they have without coming and
bugging you personally and you can think
about this as planning for future you to
have some time off
you don't want to be bugged by super
urgent direct messages while you're
sipping cocktails on a beach somewhere
while you're writing down all this stuff
about processes it's it's really easy to
start thinking in terms of well let's
just make it a rule that this gets done
let's enforce this particular task
but that way lies Madness my friends
I'd like to give you a small anecdote
from when I was when I was a little girl
my mum like many mums had a very strict
rule that her sewing scissors were only
to be used for fabric nothing else
those scissors were nothing particularly
special
but if I needed to cut something
anything you can bet I was going for
those scissors first and that's because
mum had said no
if you make rules for the sake of making
rules you are just setting yourself up
for disappointment save the rulemaking
for when you truly need it that way your
team members won't feel like they're
being micromanaged and when you do make
a hard and fast rule it will actually be
more meaningful and is more likely to
stick
so hiring the first person is the
hardest bit but the challenges you face
will change dramatically as you go from
a small team to a big team
take it from me that trying to directly
manage any more than 10 people is a bad
idea personally I prefer to stick to
around five direct reports if I possibly
can and I'd like to share a little bit
of an embarrassing story about about
this from my first team so I was
managing about 13 people at the time we
were working in a physical office and we
had an evacuation alarm go off at about
8 30 in the morning so I was on my way
in I was in the car park I had not made
it up to the office yet
so in the car park the alarm goes off I
had no idea who was in the office yet
and who was not
and I just went straight up the street
straight up to the evacuation point and
started madly texting everybody
so I'm just sending texts out saying are
you in the office yet I need you to get
to the evacuation point you need to head
count all the rest
and it was only after we were allowed
back in the building about an hour later
that I realized I had forgotten someone
now it ended okay
turned out she just hadn't gotten into
the office yet she was running a bit
late that day
but that could have ended up with one of
my team members trapped in a burning
building
and I would have had no idea until it
was too late
if you can't reliably remember every
single one of your team members under
pressure
you have too many direct reports
so if you find yourself in this
situation you need to set up some groups
you can do this several ways but one
thing I would recommend is that you
ensure the groups are porous make sure
it's easy for people to move in and out
of your different groups and that all of
your processes stay the same across
groups also make sure that you're
keeping on top of culture and social
issues it's super important
so the leaders of each group should be
your direct reports make sure you're
meeting with your direct reports
regularly weekly if you can but don't
neglect the people who report to them
make sure you keep yourself available to
them speak directly to them whenever you
can and you when you speak directly to
your to your reports reports just do it
on a slightly less frequent Cadence
fortnightly or monthly or even once a
quarter
team leadership is actually a really
good way for people who want to move
into management to try out a low stakes
management role as well and it's a great
way for you to expand your management
skills as well because you're managing
managers and that brings me neatly to
the next point
which is that you need to consider the
career paths you are offering your team
I am very much in favor of providing two
career tracks for my for my team one for
people who want to go into traditional
leadership and people management roles
and one for people who want to grow into
a technical role without taking on
management tasks
so a technical career track in a docs
organization would typically lead up to
rules to roles sorry like information
architect documentation engineer or
content strategist
to remember when you're talking about
career tracks with your team members too
that not everyone is going to want to
stay in a documentation team you may
lose team members to roles in
engineering project management or
marketing and that's okay
you need to make sure you're helping
your team members achieve the things
that are right for them even if it takes
them out of your team
so I mentioned this topic briefly at the
beginning of the talk but I'd like to
revisit the idea of Team structure
so let's imagine that you have five
writers and three main product lines
it's tempting to put three writers on
your biggest product and then have the
other two dedicated to the smaller ones
now this isn't necessarily a problem
everyone talks to each other we're
sharing ideas we're all using the same
tools and we can all come to each other
for help
the problem arises when you have Alex
working on product a over here
and they get sick or they quit and
someone else has to pick up that work at
that point you realize that Alex had a
bunch of product knowledge that no one
else has they've been attending product
meetings they've established
relationships with developers and
they've been playing with the product
for some time and that's not something
that someone else can easily step into
at a moment's notice
so some of these things you can mitigate
you can mitigate them by implementing
policies about frequent reporting making
sure all work including drafts is done
in an open fashion and recording
meetings and meeting notes whenever
possible
technology is hard one by your team
members and no amount of note-taking or
policy making is going to mitigate that
kind of product loss sorry knowledge
laws
if you want to keep your dedicated
writers you absolutely can Implement
some job shadowing this allows people to
go and spend a few days or a week
working on another product that has a
dedicated writer on it it doesn't fully
resolve the problem but at least you
have someone else in the team you know
has had has at least a little bit of
that knowledge and can sort of pick up
the threads if needed
the alternative which I prefer is to use
a Services model
this is where the documentation team
acts as a Consulting agency to
engineering so a doctor Quest comes in
someone takes it product teams won't get
the same writer every time but work gets
done by the next available writer this
means that deliverables won't fall
through the cracks if writers take some
time off and best of all when people
leave your group they don't you don't
lose an entire body of knowledge as well
so just in case it wasn't obvious I live
in Australia which means that for most
of my career I've been living on the
wrong side of the world
this means that I spend a whole lot more
time thinking about time zones than most
people and if you're based in an office
and or your team are with you in that
same office then time zones might not be
something you need to think about a lot
but with more teams going remote and
more companies like time scale being
globally remote time zones are something
that you need to be able to handle at
some point and it's actually really hard
as much as I preach a work ethic of
making sure you're having downtime not
checking email on the weekends that kind
of thing time zones mean sometimes you
need to be working at a time when let's
face it we'd rather be in bed
sometimes you do need to take a virtual
meeting at 7am and that's cool do it in
your pajamas have your coffee in hand
don't be afraid to yawn
it's important to be honest about the
time zone you're working in and it's
also important that you don't need to
say yes to everything
if you have a facility in your
organization where people can see your
calendar and book meetings with you you
should be able to set availability and I
don't just mean nine to five I have set
availability in my morning and my
evening and but I block out times around
meals so I can spend that time with my
family
so on top of personal considerations you
also need to consider where your team is
located if you have say everyone in the
continental United States except one
person who is in say Australia
that poor person in Australia is going
to feel a little bit isolated that
doesn't mean you shouldn't hire people
in a different time zone it just means
you need to put in that little bit of
extra effort to make sure that they're
included and that they're getting
information
so let's talk about meetings
probably the main thing that will drive
home to you that you're a manager now is
that you'll be doing more meetings and a
whole lot less actual work
so yes you'll be doing all the meetings
you did before but now you'll also be
doing a whole lot of one-on-one meetings
with your staff and they're the ones I
want to talk about first
if you're anything like me you'll come
to a point where you feel like all the
one-on-one meetings might actually kill
you
I'm living proof that they won't and I'm
also going to tell you that you have to
do them anyway I'm sorry
um one-on-one meetings are not actually
there for your benefit I mean you will
benefit from them but that's not why
they exist it's not why we do them their
primary purpose is to communicate to
your team members that you care about
them
that you care about what they're working
on and that you are above all listening
to them
if you spend your one-on-one meetings
doing all the talking then you're doing
it wrong
I like to remind my team members that
they set the agenda for our one-on-one
meetings whether or not they send me a
formal agenda ahead of time they don't
have to
but what I like to do every one-on-one
meeting I have I always start with a
question such as so how has your week
been or you know what's going on how are
things for you
let your team member talk about whatever
is on their mind work tasks how they're
getting along with other colleagues tool
complaints anything at all even their
personal life if that's what they want
to talk about
you do not need to solve each problem as
things come up but you do need to be
actively listening and you need to find
out if there's an action that they would
like you to take
if they do ask you to do something make
sure you do it take a note make sure you
report back to them in a timely manner
even if it's to say that you couldn't do
it a bit above all make sure your team
members feel heard
and that brings us to the dreaded team
meeting
this is the meeting where you as the
manager get to do all the talking
how you structure this is entirely up to
you I would recommend that you do at
least some kind of an overview of what
people have been working on since the
last meeting and some kind of planning
for what's coming up
I also like to make sure I have an open
Agenda so people can add their own
things to the list for discussion
clay I use this meeting for calibrating
the team on current events and what
we're all as a group working towards and
prioritizing right now
way of me communicating to the entire
team
I don't want to be communicating to
individuals in their one-on-one unless
it's specific to that person so save the
general announcements for the team
meetings
but if you remember just one thing about
meetings and let it be this
always praise in public and criticize in
private no backbiting or complaining in
the team meeting and save the advice for
your one-on-ones
one thing I have seen a lot of people do
is use their team meeting for sort of
these passive aggressive kind of
comments like and don't forget to use a
meaningful commit message that kind of
thing save that for the one-on-ones with
the people who actually need to hear it
uh the people who actually need a
reminder that that's for a few reasons
it will mean more if it's delivered
personally but it also gives people a
chance to ask questions if they
genuinely need help rather than risking
embarrassing themselves in a public in a
public forum
um I do want to add that there are
exceptions to this rule it's usually for
more serious matters like abuse or
bullying and so I'm just not going to
cover those here as a completely
different topic so but there are
exceptions is my point the final note
that I want to make about conducting
team meetings is to check who has agency
who is talking the most who is answering
questions who is suggesting agenda items
who is sitting in the corner not saying
anything
not everyone can or will want to speak
up and you absolutely should not make
them
but at least make sure they have the
opportunity to do so if they wish to
so I appreciate that at least some of
this talk sounds like I live in a
perfect world
and while time scale is pretty great
it's um I also have to live here in the
real world with all the rest of you so
this final part of my talk is about
dealing with things when things aren't
going so great
hiring is hard and it's also an
incredibly imprecise science
so that means you're not going to get it
right every time
fortunately most of most people will
actually pretty quickly work out if
they're not fitting in or if they're
just not enjoying the work and most will
choose to move on all of their own
volition that's not always going to
happen though
and sometimes you will need to intervene
before things get toxic
always start by having an open and
honest conversation with the person
involved
to prepare for that conversation you
need to start by talking to your own
manager and possibly your HR department
not because you necessarily want to fire
your team member but because you need to
make sure you understand what you can
and can't do in this situation and what
the process is to get to that point
in some jurisdictions that process can
actually be really lengthy and it will
require a significant amount of
preparation and very careful language
additionally your company might have
specific rules and regulations that you
need to follow as well
so once you've had that first
conversation with your manager and I'm
sorry the first conversation with your
team member you might be pleasantly
surprised many people just don't
actually realize that what they're doing
is disruptive or as otherwise unhelpful
until you point it out and many people
are actually happy and happy enough to
try and make that change no one wants to
put their job in Jeopardy especially if
they like the work
unfortunately though that's not always
the case and in that situation which
hopefully is very rare you will either
need to encourage them to find a role
more suited to them or go through the
process to remove them entirely
whatever happens though make sure you
record everything you remain polite you
work with your management and your HR
team and you continue to act in good
faith
remember to review all your practices
afterwards as well see if there's ways
that you can improve
team structure problems are in many ways
easier to recover from
however they're often harder to spot
it's entirely possible that you think
your team structure is working well
while people on your team think that it
is not
it's also possible that some people on
your team love the way you're doing
things and others don't and it's
sometimes for the same reason
the best advice I can give you on this
is to keep talking to people
this is the type of conversation you
want to be having in your one-on-ones
primarily
but don't be afraid to tweak things in
your structure and try things out too
and you can use your team meetings for
this to say I've been thinking about
trying this thing what do you all think
about that
that way your staff know that you're up
for changing things and that you can
take feedback on structure decisions as
well
and I guess the addendum to that is to
make sure that you admit when you make a
mistake too if you change something and
it just doesn't hit change it back
sometimes you end up in a situation
where just everything is terrible
this has happened to me when I've walked
in as a new manager to an existing team
if the team has a terrible culture bad
work practices and a rotten attitude
it's a really difficult ship to turn
around
the key here though is culture encourage
open communication make sure you
demonstrate trustworthiness and engage
your team members in the process of
improving
it could take a long time but I promise
it will be absolutely worth the hard
work
finally I'd like to end on a note from a
dedicated leader and public servant
who tells us that the reason we do these
things is because we get to work hard at
work worth doing
management isn't for everyone but I
personally love the challenge of leading
people
for me it's about taking the time to
find out what makes an individual tick
and how I can best put them in a place
that satisfies them whether it's finding
them work that they find meaningful a
team that they enjoy spending time with
or just a great atmosphere to rock up
and work in each day
it's important to remember that what
motivates people is more than just a
paycheck it's also about giving them
meaningful work that they enjoy and that
they can work hard and Excel at
so go and find your team and get to work
if you want to come work with me and my
team time scale our hiring mostly still
all across the organization although
we've scaled back a little bit recently
and we are globally remote so please
check out our careers page you can scan
the QR code or go to timescale.com
careers
and thank you thank you for listening I
really appreciate you spending the time
[Applause]
do we have time for questions thank you
Lana yes we've got time we've got three
minutes for questions which is maybe two
questions or three micro questions or
any questions
yes
please speak
um have you got any tips or advice for
groups that are like our team for
instance is more like technical
Engineers that are 10 technical
documentation writers for instance that
cover a few different service Stacks
whereas I feel like most of the stuff
you're talking about today are primarily
technical or documentation writing roles
um how do you find that change or shift
in a team that I make and any advice a
multi-disciplinary teams are awesome can
I say and I wish I'd had an opportunity
to manage more of them
so I'm primarily going from my own
experience here which has been primarily
documentation teams
um
I think
management is a skill you can learn and
I don't think at its at its most basic I
don't think it matters who you're
managing especially when we're talking
about just you know technical people
generally technical people right
um I
suspect if you're a good manager you can
probably manage just about anybody
um I think with multi-disciplinary teams
you've got more interesting questions
about team structure and how we we move
between groups and how we assign work
items that kind of thing the sort of
more practical Hands-On things and I'm
probably not the best person to advise
you on that because I haven't managed
that many multi-disciplinary teams
although I am currently in one
um so yeah I probably don't have
anything specific to tell you all I
would remind you is a good good
management good management especially of
technical people I think you can
probably manage anybody so work work on
those management skills and you'll get
somewhere
thank you ever got any more questions
going once going twice
thank you Lana
foreign