1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,469 foreign 2 00:00:00,500 --> 00:00:08,469 [Music] 3 00:00:13,580 --> 00:00:18,240 ER will quite happily lecture anyone for 4 00:00:16,260 --> 00:00:20,520 hours on the finer points of grammar 5 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:23,939 style information architecture and 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:25,800 content strategy if only people will 7 00:00:23,939 --> 00:00:27,779 stand still long enough 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,460 today will be a captive audience while 9 00:00:27,779 --> 00:00:31,560 Lana explains how to build a 10 00:00:29,460 --> 00:00:34,399 documentation team from scratch please 11 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:34,399 welcome Lana 12 00:00:36,090 --> 00:00:41,280 [Applause] 13 00:00:38,219 --> 00:00:43,140 thank you David I'd like to begin by 14 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,760 acknowledging the traditional owners of 15 00:00:43,140 --> 00:00:47,340 the land on which I'm giving this talk 16 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:49,079 today and I'd like to pay my respects to 17 00:00:47,340 --> 00:00:51,360 their Elders past present and emerging 18 00:00:49,079 --> 00:00:53,940 I'd also like to acknowledge that this 19 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:56,039 land which I benefit from occupying was 20 00:00:53,940 --> 00:00:58,559 stolen and that sovereignty was never 21 00:00:56,039 --> 00:01:01,280 ceded by the warundry why we're wrong of 22 00:00:58,559 --> 00:01:01,280 colon Nations 23 00:01:02,100 --> 00:01:06,740 so generally speaking I don't like to 24 00:01:04,379 --> 00:01:10,380 start Talks by talking about myself 25 00:01:06,740 --> 00:01:12,119 however in this case I think it's 26 00:01:10,380 --> 00:01:14,939 probably relevant to start by letting 27 00:01:12,119 --> 00:01:17,640 you know who I am why I'm qualified to 28 00:01:14,939 --> 00:01:19,500 talk about this stuff 29 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,600 um and yeah why I'm here 30 00:01:19,500 --> 00:01:23,880 so I've got multiple management degrees 31 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:25,080 including an MBA that I completed in 32 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,640 2019 33 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:28,939 . so that means I've learned a whole lot 34 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,799 of management Theory 35 00:01:28,939 --> 00:01:32,880 perhaps more importantly though I've 36 00:01:31,799 --> 00:01:35,640 managed a number of different 37 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:38,040 documentation teams throughout my career 38 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:42,600 so my first team started with four 39 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:45,060 people and I ended up with 13. my second 40 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:47,159 team started with two people including 41 00:01:45,060 --> 00:01:49,079 me and ended up with nine 42 00:01:47,159 --> 00:01:51,180 my third team was an open source 43 00:01:49,079 --> 00:01:52,680 community group which was an elected 44 00:01:51,180 --> 00:01:54,000 position staffed entirely with 45 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:57,960 volunteers 46 00:01:54,000 --> 00:02:00,240 I can and I have given entire talks 47 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:03,060 about Management in open source 48 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:06,000 situations but I am not going to go into 49 00:02:03,060 --> 00:02:07,740 that level of detail here let's just say 50 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,959 that that experience has definitely 51 00:02:07,740 --> 00:02:12,780 influenced my management style in many 52 00:02:09,959 --> 00:02:14,580 ways mostly for the better 53 00:02:12,780 --> 00:02:16,860 my fourth team was a tiny little 54 00:02:14,580 --> 00:02:18,780 Australian startup that started with me 55 00:02:16,860 --> 00:02:21,300 as the sole writer and grooter too 56 00:02:18,780 --> 00:02:24,300 before the company fell over 57 00:02:21,300 --> 00:02:26,879 finally my fifth and current team at 58 00:02:24,300 --> 00:02:28,800 timescale started with me as the sole 59 00:02:26,879 --> 00:02:30,540 writer for about seven months and is now 60 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,280 currently sitting at three where's the 61 00:02:30,540 --> 00:02:34,440 intention of continuing to grow 62 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,700 and if you hear this talk and you are 63 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,440 interested in coming to join us at 64 00:02:35,700 --> 00:02:39,000 timescale I'll have a link for you at 65 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,920 the end where you can take a look at our 66 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,239 current openings 67 00:02:40,920 --> 00:02:44,879 so 68 00:02:42,239 --> 00:02:46,739 as with technical documentation when you 69 00:02:44,879 --> 00:02:49,200 are planning to start a docs team you 70 00:02:46,739 --> 00:02:51,599 need to start with planning this is 71 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,519 important if you're a sole author madly 72 00:02:51,599 --> 00:02:56,220 trying to convince management that you 73 00:02:53,519 --> 00:02:58,560 need help or if you just got that phone 74 00:02:56,220 --> 00:03:00,900 call that says you can begin hiring 75 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,819 even if you already have a team member 76 00:03:00,900 --> 00:03:04,260 or two it's not too late to take 77 00:03:02,819 --> 00:03:07,260 yourself through this planning process 78 00:03:04,260 --> 00:03:09,480 because the information and insight that 79 00:03:07,260 --> 00:03:12,000 you get from the process will help as 80 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:14,900 you continue to grow your team 81 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:18,120 now this this quote is a little trite 82 00:03:14,900 --> 00:03:19,680 but the sentiment is a good one in 83 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,900 essence you don't want to be thinking of 84 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:24,420 yourself as the head of a Great and 85 00:03:21,900 --> 00:03:27,239 Mighty team beloved and feared in in 86 00:03:24,420 --> 00:03:29,159 equal measure by your subordinates it is 87 00:03:27,239 --> 00:03:31,080 important to think about your team as 88 00:03:29,159 --> 00:03:32,519 the people who enable you to do your 89 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,459 best work 90 00:03:32,519 --> 00:03:36,780 remember that without your team you are 91 00:03:35,459 --> 00:03:38,340 never going to be able to take a 92 00:03:36,780 --> 00:03:39,900 vacation 93 00:03:38,340 --> 00:03:42,060 so the first thing I want to encourage 94 00:03:39,900 --> 00:03:43,920 you to do is to think about what kind of 95 00:03:42,060 --> 00:03:46,620 manager you want to be 96 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:49,140 this plays deeply obviously into your 97 00:03:46,620 --> 00:03:50,640 own personality and style and it's 98 00:03:49,140 --> 00:03:53,099 really important that you're honest with 99 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:55,680 yourself at this this point 100 00:03:53,099 --> 00:03:57,299 don't set your team up in such a way 101 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,159 that they need to come to you to ask for 102 00:03:57,299 --> 00:04:00,299 each work item if you're the kind of 103 00:03:59,159 --> 00:04:02,760 person who doesn't like being 104 00:04:00,299 --> 00:04:04,140 interrupted a lot or if you work in a 105 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,120 different time zone 106 00:04:04,140 --> 00:04:08,220 make sure that your team structure and 107 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:10,500 processes work for you and for your 108 00:04:08,220 --> 00:04:13,319 management style 109 00:04:10,500 --> 00:04:15,840 with that in mind I like to think of my 110 00:04:13,319 --> 00:04:18,479 team Less in terms of hierarchies and 111 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:21,000 More in terms of Voltron 112 00:04:18,479 --> 00:04:23,720 I am hoping there's a few 90s kids in 113 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:26,520 the audience who remember how this works 114 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:28,860 the essence is though for those who are 115 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:31,199 not familiar with the cartoon the four 116 00:04:28,860 --> 00:04:33,960 explorers each formed a limb of the 117 00:04:31,199 --> 00:04:35,820 giant robot Voltron with the fifth 118 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,820 Explorer forming the head 119 00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:41,040 you all need to work together in equal 120 00:04:38,820 --> 00:04:42,360 parts even though only one of you is the 121 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,880 manager 122 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,620 in this kind of model my team members 123 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,900 know that they can come to me if they 124 00:04:46,620 --> 00:04:51,600 need assistance or guidance but they 125 00:04:48,900 --> 00:04:53,160 also have their own part to play and for 126 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,680 the most part they're able to work out 127 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:57,600 what they need to do next without having 128 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,580 to come back and ask me 129 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,979 this allows them to work on their own 130 00:04:59,580 --> 00:05:04,320 tasks at their own pace and it also 131 00:05:01,979 --> 00:05:06,419 means I have the freedom and time to 132 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,280 work on work to work deeply on my own 133 00:05:06,419 --> 00:05:10,139 tasks when I need to as well 134 00:05:08,280 --> 00:05:11,880 this is especially important for 135 00:05:10,139 --> 00:05:14,880 distributed teams where you might have 136 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,320 people working during hours when you and 137 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,620 sometimes the rest of the team are 138 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,620 asleep 139 00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:23,880 so next you need to start thinking about 140 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:25,680 how you want to structure your team 141 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,840 mostly this comes down to what your 142 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:30,120 business looks like if you're writing 143 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:31,800 documentation for multiple products then 144 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:32,820 you might want specialized writers for 145 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,979 each product 146 00:05:32,820 --> 00:05:36,780 or you might consider working more on a 147 00:05:34,979 --> 00:05:39,180 Services model where writers are 148 00:05:36,780 --> 00:05:41,160 assigned to projects as they come up 149 00:05:39,180 --> 00:05:42,840 that means you probably that you need 150 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,520 more generalists 151 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:46,979 you might also need to think a little 152 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,840 larger than you expect at this stage you 153 00:05:46,979 --> 00:05:51,120 might only have approval for one writer 154 00:05:48,840 --> 00:05:53,340 now but what will things look like when 155 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,440 you have approval for five or ten or 156 00:05:53,340 --> 00:05:57,780 Twenty 157 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,580 how will people grow and change within 158 00:05:57,780 --> 00:06:02,460 your docs organization how will you 159 00:05:59,580 --> 00:06:04,259 assign writers to tasks what happens if 160 00:06:02,460 --> 00:06:06,300 someone is sick or takes an extended 161 00:06:04,259 --> 00:06:08,400 vacation how can you bring in 162 00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:11,160 Specialists such as information 163 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:13,380 Architects technical editors or content 164 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,520 strategists and how will they fit into 165 00:06:13,380 --> 00:06:16,259 the team 166 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,880 how will your team work with say 167 00:06:16,259 --> 00:06:20,220 front-end developers or documentation 168 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,820 engineers and I'm going to come back to 169 00:06:20,220 --> 00:06:22,820 those topics 170 00:06:26,039 --> 00:06:30,479 when you've had think about the kind of 171 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,340 leader you want to be and the basic 172 00:06:30,479 --> 00:06:34,919 structure you want your team to have 173 00:06:32,340 --> 00:06:37,919 it's time to start looking at the people 174 00:06:34,919 --> 00:06:39,000 you need on your team it's really 175 00:06:37,919 --> 00:06:41,280 important that you don't just hire 176 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,440 clones of yourself and I know that 177 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:44,940 sounds really obvious but you might 178 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,039 actually be surprised at how hard that 179 00:06:44,940 --> 00:06:49,919 is to do 180 00:06:47,039 --> 00:06:52,979 as an example I give you two fictional 181 00:06:49,919 --> 00:06:55,199 potential technical writers so as I read 182 00:06:52,979 --> 00:06:58,560 these out I want you to think about who 183 00:06:55,199 --> 00:07:02,220 you would prefer to hire for a position 184 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:03,960 so Kim's references are spectacular you 185 00:07:02,220 --> 00:07:05,520 got along well with her and all her 186 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:07,199 interviewers got along really well with 187 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,039 her in the room as well they all loved 188 00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:10,560 her 189 00:07:08,039 --> 00:07:12,060 Kim recently completed her degree she 190 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,319 has no substantial experience in the 191 00:07:12,060 --> 00:07:16,500 field 192 00:07:13,319 --> 00:07:18,120 Jane on the other hand has a history of 193 00:07:16,500 --> 00:07:20,400 being productive and her references are 194 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:23,340 excellent but her interviews were just 195 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:25,380 not as much fun as Kim's 196 00:07:23,340 --> 00:07:27,020 Jane has held a similar position for 197 00:07:25,380 --> 00:07:29,880 three years 198 00:07:27,020 --> 00:07:31,800 intuitively you might want to hire Kim 199 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:34,139 just because you got along so well with 200 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,840 her as did all the other interviewers so 201 00:07:34,139 --> 00:07:39,060 she'd fit well into the team right 202 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,919 but objectively we actually have a lot 203 00:07:39,060 --> 00:07:42,120 less information about Kim than we do 204 00:07:40,919 --> 00:07:44,460 about Jane 205 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:47,460 in the context of hiring you should 206 00:07:44,460 --> 00:07:49,860 probably hire Jane but it could be a 207 00:07:47,460 --> 00:07:52,800 struggle to overcome that intuitive Prof 208 00:07:49,860 --> 00:07:55,199 that intuitive impression sorry that Kim 209 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,900 would just be a better fit 210 00:07:55,199 --> 00:08:00,900 our brains are wired to go for the 211 00:07:57,900 --> 00:08:03,060 intuitive of the intuitive answer and we 212 00:08:00,900 --> 00:08:05,400 actually find making intuitive decisions 213 00:08:03,060 --> 00:08:07,319 a lot more natural in a lot of ways 214 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:10,440 they're actually more comfortable for us 215 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:13,440 so they they make us happier 216 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:17,039 you would probably feel better about 217 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:19,500 hiring Kim even if you realize in your 218 00:08:17,039 --> 00:08:22,280 brain that that Jane is the is more 219 00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:22,280 likely to succeed 220 00:08:22,860 --> 00:08:27,599 so another way to ensure you hire people 221 00:08:25,259 --> 00:08:29,280 who are not like yourself is to make 222 00:08:27,599 --> 00:08:30,900 sure you're reaching outside of your own 223 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,940 Networks 224 00:08:30,900 --> 00:08:34,800 personally when I've been hiring for a 225 00:08:32,940 --> 00:08:36,419 position I've had a lot of really good 226 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,620 candidates come through the write the 227 00:08:36,419 --> 00:08:40,740 docs community 228 00:08:37,620 --> 00:08:43,260 and it would be very tempting to only 229 00:08:40,740 --> 00:08:45,660 seek candidates through communities like 230 00:08:43,260 --> 00:08:48,420 that because we know them we know we're 231 00:08:45,660 --> 00:08:50,100 going to get highly qualified uh really 232 00:08:48,420 --> 00:08:52,200 engaged candidates and we sort of know 233 00:08:50,100 --> 00:08:54,540 their background a little bit 234 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,100 but think back before you joined this 235 00:08:54,540 --> 00:08:58,260 community or any other community that 236 00:08:56,100 --> 00:08:59,940 you're part of you aren't any less great 237 00:08:58,260 --> 00:09:01,620 at what you did just because you weren't 238 00:08:59,940 --> 00:09:04,380 there 239 00:09:01,620 --> 00:09:06,839 um communities can be prone to a certain 240 00:09:04,380 --> 00:09:08,459 level of group think so if you grab 241 00:09:06,839 --> 00:09:10,860 candidates from wherever you can find 242 00:09:08,459 --> 00:09:12,899 them grab them from all walks of life 243 00:09:10,860 --> 00:09:15,120 all levels of backgrounds and ability 244 00:09:12,899 --> 00:09:18,620 and all different kinds of communities 245 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,620 you'll get a more diverse team 246 00:09:18,959 --> 00:09:24,240 so one of the major takeaways I had from 247 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,279 my MBA Human Resources class 248 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:30,000 was that interviews are the single worst 249 00:09:26,279 --> 00:09:32,339 way to find out what someone knows 250 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:34,320 unfortunately we are stuck with 251 00:09:32,339 --> 00:09:35,580 interviews so we have to make the best 252 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:39,120 of them 253 00:09:35,580 --> 00:09:41,339 there are two main things you can do 254 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,740 start by deciding what the overall 255 00:09:41,339 --> 00:09:45,779 interview process looks like so 256 00:09:43,740 --> 00:09:47,399 screenings panel interviews writing 257 00:09:45,779 --> 00:09:50,040 tests one-on-one interviews all of that 258 00:09:47,399 --> 00:09:52,380 and make sure it stays the same for 259 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,519 every single person you interview for 260 00:09:52,380 --> 00:09:55,500 the position 261 00:09:53,519 --> 00:09:56,880 if you discover that you want to change 262 00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:59,760 things as you're going through the 263 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:02,820 process that's fine do it for the next 264 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:05,519 candidate not for this one 265 00:10:02,820 --> 00:10:06,959 uh also the second thing you need to do 266 00:10:05,519 --> 00:10:09,300 is to write down all the questions you 267 00:10:06,959 --> 00:10:11,940 want to ask and make a scorecard to Mark 268 00:10:09,300 --> 00:10:13,860 people's responses against then you use 269 00:10:11,940 --> 00:10:15,899 exactly the same questions for every 270 00:10:13,860 --> 00:10:18,320 single candidate and exactly the same 271 00:10:15,899 --> 00:10:21,540 scorecard for every candidate 272 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:22,980 consistency is the single most important 273 00:10:21,540 --> 00:10:24,779 thing you can do to make interviews 274 00:10:22,980 --> 00:10:26,339 useful and to make sure that we're not 275 00:10:24,779 --> 00:10:28,880 just wasting everyone's time including 276 00:10:26,339 --> 00:10:28,880 your candidates 277 00:10:29,700 --> 00:10:35,580 so now I gave a version of this talk 278 00:10:32,580 --> 00:10:37,920 many many years ago at an LCA and that 279 00:10:35,580 --> 00:10:40,980 was when I was building team number two 280 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:43,800 and I recently had a chance to revisit 281 00:10:40,980 --> 00:10:46,500 that talk and in it during The Question 282 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:49,220 Answer session I struggled openly with 283 00:10:46,500 --> 00:10:52,560 the idea of hiring friends 284 00:10:49,220 --> 00:10:54,959 if I'm honest I still do struggle with 285 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:56,700 the topic of hiring friends but my 286 00:10:54,959 --> 00:10:58,560 thinking has come a long way since then 287 00:10:56,700 --> 00:11:01,140 and I actually wanted to address the 288 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:03,779 question again in a more formal way 289 00:11:01,140 --> 00:11:06,540 I have been known to hire the same 290 00:11:03,779 --> 00:11:08,220 people on my teams two or even three 291 00:11:06,540 --> 00:11:10,560 different times across different teams 292 00:11:08,220 --> 00:11:13,740 different companies and it's actually 293 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:15,000 great you already know the people uh you 294 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:16,560 know how they work you know their 295 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,360 strengths and weaknesses you know 296 00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:19,860 exactly what kind of team member they're 297 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,380 going to be and how they're going to fit 298 00:11:19,860 --> 00:11:23,760 in however the flip side is they also 299 00:11:22,380 --> 00:11:26,279 know you 300 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,500 they know what to say to please you 301 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:30,779 they know how much or how little they 302 00:11:28,500 --> 00:11:32,399 need to do to be considered successful 303 00:11:30,779 --> 00:11:36,899 and they know what they can get away 304 00:11:32,399 --> 00:11:39,600 with now hiring your friends is the very 305 00:11:36,899 --> 00:11:42,240 definition of hiring clones of yourself 306 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,500 so I'm not saying don't ever hire your 307 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,660 friends that would be massively 308 00:11:43,500 --> 00:11:48,360 hypocritical of me 309 00:11:45,660 --> 00:11:50,700 um you just need to make sure you go in 310 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,980 with your eyes open I think 311 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:55,680 make sure you make it very clear to 312 00:11:52,980 --> 00:11:58,079 others on the hiring panel or the people 313 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:59,839 in your HR team that you know the person 314 00:11:58,079 --> 00:12:03,540 personally 315 00:11:59,839 --> 00:12:05,640 and if you can remove bias from your 316 00:12:03,540 --> 00:12:07,200 interview process as much as possible 317 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,300 so if you're supposed to be conducting 318 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,459 an interview yourself you could have a 319 00:12:09,300 --> 00:12:13,380 peer do it or you could have someone 320 00:12:11,459 --> 00:12:15,839 silently sit in on the interview who 321 00:12:13,380 --> 00:12:17,880 doesn't participate but has your 322 00:12:15,839 --> 00:12:20,160 scorecard has your questions and is 323 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:21,899 marking making notes and going along and 324 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:23,519 that way they're checking your responses 325 00:12:21,899 --> 00:12:26,839 making sure that you're not marking them 326 00:12:23,519 --> 00:12:26,839 differently to other candidates 327 00:12:26,940 --> 00:12:32,940 so hopefully by the time you've gone 328 00:12:30,540 --> 00:12:34,820 through a bunch of interviews aside from 329 00:12:32,940 --> 00:12:36,959 being awfully sick of interviewing 330 00:12:34,820 --> 00:12:38,160 you'll have a good idea of who you're 331 00:12:36,959 --> 00:12:41,100 going to hire 332 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:43,440 s where it's important again to rail a 333 00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:45,420 little bit against your intuition you're 334 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,339 not trying to pick friends together to 335 00:12:45,420 --> 00:12:48,480 the pub with 336 00:12:46,339 --> 00:12:51,000 hire the person that has the most 337 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:53,579 relevant experience that has the more 338 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,139 appropriate qualifications and was most 339 00:12:53,579 --> 00:12:57,300 able to demonstrate that they have the 340 00:12:55,139 --> 00:12:59,339 right skills even if you didn't get 341 00:12:57,300 --> 00:13:02,579 along all that well with them 342 00:12:59,339 --> 00:13:03,720 it will be really difficult to do and it 343 00:13:02,579 --> 00:13:06,839 might feel like you're going against 344 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:08,639 your gut and we all hate doing that but 345 00:13:06,839 --> 00:13:10,380 your animal brain is actually trying to 346 00:13:08,639 --> 00:13:13,700 trick you here and you need to tell it 347 00:13:10,380 --> 00:13:13,700 to just keep down and back 348 00:13:14,279 --> 00:13:19,260 so perhaps one of the scariest things 349 00:13:16,380 --> 00:13:21,420 you ever do as a manager is double the 350 00:13:19,260 --> 00:13:24,360 size of your team overnight 351 00:13:21,420 --> 00:13:26,100 hopefully your first hire is someone who 352 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,700 is going to be able to cope with your 353 00:13:26,100 --> 00:13:31,019 fledgling docs team 354 00:13:28,700 --> 00:13:32,459 hopefully they're hopefully you've 355 00:13:31,019 --> 00:13:34,200 managed to explain through the interview 356 00:13:32,459 --> 00:13:35,459 process sort of you know what the 357 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,800 situation is and what they're going to 358 00:13:35,459 --> 00:13:39,360 come up with you really don't want them 359 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,700 turning up on their first day and going 360 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:44,279 so where's everyone else oh where's the 361 00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:46,019 processes those things don't exist yet 362 00:13:44,279 --> 00:13:47,760 so make sure you've already addressed 363 00:13:46,019 --> 00:13:50,880 those issues before their first day they 364 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:53,399 know exactly what they're walking into 365 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,500 before your new hire starts put some 366 00:13:53,399 --> 00:13:58,800 time into writing a hiring plan for them 367 00:13:55,500 --> 00:14:00,779 I like to use Google Docs but any tool 368 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,399 will work and just so that they can 369 00:14:00,779 --> 00:14:04,260 comment on it and you can interact with 370 00:14:02,399 --> 00:14:06,600 them a little bit through that the 371 00:14:04,260 --> 00:14:08,760 hiring plan should explain what you're 372 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,360 part of the organization does exactly 373 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:14,300 how you fit into the larger organization 374 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:16,380 important people they need to speak to 375 00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:18,600 software and other tools they need to 376 00:14:16,380 --> 00:14:20,160 make sure they can access and probably a 377 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,600 bunch of links out to other important 378 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,700 reading and that kind of thing for them 379 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:26,339 to complete in their first few days 380 00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:28,139 I also like to specify some broad goals 381 00:14:26,339 --> 00:14:30,720 for the first week first month and first 382 00:14:28,139 --> 00:14:31,860 three months just so that my new hires 383 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,779 feel like they have a little bit of a 384 00:14:31,860 --> 00:14:36,420 plan and a little bit of direction for 385 00:14:33,779 --> 00:14:38,399 those early days don't make the goals 386 00:14:36,420 --> 00:14:41,339 too ambitious 387 00:14:38,399 --> 00:14:42,959 um I usually have things like 388 00:14:41,339 --> 00:14:45,000 understanding the documentation tool 389 00:14:42,959 --> 00:14:47,279 chain installing and using the product 390 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:48,899 they're going to be documenting getting 391 00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:51,079 their first pull request that kind of 392 00:14:48,899 --> 00:14:51,079 thing 393 00:14:52,019 --> 00:14:56,940 don't be surprised if you're as nervous 394 00:14:54,480 --> 00:15:00,540 on your new hires first day as they are 395 00:14:56,940 --> 00:15:02,040 I always am every single time especially 396 00:15:00,540 --> 00:15:04,560 with a brand new team 397 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:07,380 uh don't let this mean that you crowd 398 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,000 them though send them an email ahead of 399 00:15:07,380 --> 00:15:11,399 their scheduled start time preferably 400 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,959 the night before to an account that you 401 00:15:11,399 --> 00:15:15,060 know they have access to that might be 402 00:15:12,959 --> 00:15:16,920 their personal email account 403 00:15:15,060 --> 00:15:19,019 you don't need to say much just 404 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,940 reintroduce yourself as their manager 405 00:15:19,019 --> 00:15:22,920 welcome them aboard give them any 406 00:15:20,940 --> 00:15:24,120 essential information they need things 407 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,800 like you know how to get into the 408 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,420 building and find their desk or how to 409 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,880 sign into accounts 410 00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:32,100 and also send them the hiring plan 411 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,720 document you created for them and give 412 00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:35,699 them a note just so we'll go through it 413 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:37,079 with you in the next day or two this 414 00:15:35,699 --> 00:15:39,720 gives them something to read through and 415 00:15:37,079 --> 00:15:41,820 start digesting even if they don't fully 416 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,320 understand everything in it yet it also 417 00:15:41,820 --> 00:15:45,180 gives them a really good listener names 418 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,380 when they're first meeting people in the 419 00:15:45,180 --> 00:15:47,820 building 420 00:15:46,380 --> 00:15:49,740 so then you can book a meeting with them 421 00:15:47,820 --> 00:15:51,779 late on their first day or in the 422 00:15:49,740 --> 00:15:53,880 morning of their second day when you can 423 00:15:51,779 --> 00:15:55,260 start actually dumping reading material 424 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:57,500 and that kind of thing on them a little 425 00:15:55,260 --> 00:15:57,500 bit more 426 00:15:58,139 --> 00:16:02,880 one of the first things you're going to 427 00:15:59,940 --> 00:16:04,860 notice with your new hire is that all 428 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:06,779 the things that you do it's without 429 00:16:04,860 --> 00:16:10,019 thinking about them too much 430 00:16:06,779 --> 00:16:12,720 there's things like checking your GitHub 431 00:16:10,019 --> 00:16:14,459 and chat notifications light grooming of 432 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:16,019 the backlog that stuff that we just do 433 00:16:14,459 --> 00:16:18,300 all the time without even thinking about 434 00:16:16,019 --> 00:16:20,579 it the way you pull out a pull request 435 00:16:18,300 --> 00:16:23,100 the tags you use to organize and sort 436 00:16:20,579 --> 00:16:25,260 your work tasks the way you reply to 437 00:16:23,100 --> 00:16:27,839 requests from internal and external 438 00:16:25,260 --> 00:16:30,360 contributors and readers even just the 439 00:16:27,839 --> 00:16:32,339 things you check when you're editing a 440 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:33,779 whole lot of that stuff is probably kept 441 00:16:32,339 --> 00:16:35,639 in your head 442 00:16:33,779 --> 00:16:37,079 and this is all because of the curse of 443 00:16:35,639 --> 00:16:39,360 knowledge 444 00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:41,399 as writers we're familiar with the idea 445 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,920 that the more you know the harder it is 446 00:16:41,399 --> 00:16:45,060 to explain something and so you need to 447 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:46,860 keep that in mind that it happens with 448 00:16:45,060 --> 00:16:48,600 people management as well 449 00:16:46,860 --> 00:16:49,680 whenever you come up against one of 450 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:53,339 those little things that you didn't 451 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:55,560 realize that you did write it down 452 00:16:53,339 --> 00:16:58,259 start with whatever tool you use for 453 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:59,519 Internal Documentation and Wiki or a 454 00:16:58,259 --> 00:17:02,040 document that other people in your 455 00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:03,360 organization can access and later on you 456 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,079 can consider turning it into something 457 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,079 more formal 458 00:17:06,179 --> 00:17:10,679 the most important thing is that your 459 00:17:08,339 --> 00:17:12,660 team members as your team grows can go 460 00:17:10,679 --> 00:17:13,799 and look that up and find out and 461 00:17:12,660 --> 00:17:15,480 whatever the answer to whatever 462 00:17:13,799 --> 00:17:17,760 questions they have without coming and 463 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:20,280 bugging you personally and you can think 464 00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:21,600 about this as planning for future you to 465 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:24,240 have some time off 466 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,679 you don't want to be bugged by super 467 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:29,480 urgent direct messages while you're 468 00:17:25,679 --> 00:17:29,480 sipping cocktails on a beach somewhere 469 00:17:30,299 --> 00:17:34,679 while you're writing down all this stuff 470 00:17:32,100 --> 00:17:36,900 about processes it's it's really easy to 471 00:17:34,679 --> 00:17:39,179 start thinking in terms of well let's 472 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:42,240 just make it a rule that this gets done 473 00:17:39,179 --> 00:17:47,039 let's enforce this particular task 474 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:49,260 but that way lies Madness my friends 475 00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:51,559 I'd like to give you a small anecdote 476 00:17:49,260 --> 00:17:55,080 from when I was when I was a little girl 477 00:17:51,559 --> 00:17:58,140 my mum like many mums had a very strict 478 00:17:55,080 --> 00:18:02,340 rule that her sewing scissors were only 479 00:17:58,140 --> 00:18:04,320 to be used for fabric nothing else 480 00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:05,880 those scissors were nothing particularly 481 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:07,919 special 482 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,980 but if I needed to cut something 483 00:18:07,919 --> 00:18:12,480 anything you can bet I was going for 484 00:18:10,980 --> 00:18:15,299 those scissors first and that's because 485 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:17,580 mum had said no 486 00:18:15,299 --> 00:18:20,100 if you make rules for the sake of making 487 00:18:17,580 --> 00:18:22,380 rules you are just setting yourself up 488 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:25,500 for disappointment save the rulemaking 489 00:18:22,380 --> 00:18:26,820 for when you truly need it that way your 490 00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:29,160 team members won't feel like they're 491 00:18:26,820 --> 00:18:31,500 being micromanaged and when you do make 492 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:33,660 a hard and fast rule it will actually be 493 00:18:31,500 --> 00:18:35,720 more meaningful and is more likely to 494 00:18:33,660 --> 00:18:38,400 stick 495 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:41,039 so hiring the first person is the 496 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,500 hardest bit but the challenges you face 497 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:46,080 will change dramatically as you go from 498 00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:48,720 a small team to a big team 499 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:51,240 take it from me that trying to directly 500 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:54,600 manage any more than 10 people is a bad 501 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:57,240 idea personally I prefer to stick to 502 00:18:54,600 --> 00:19:00,360 around five direct reports if I possibly 503 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:03,240 can and I'd like to share a little bit 504 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:05,580 of an embarrassing story about about 505 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,860 this from my first team so I was 506 00:19:05,580 --> 00:19:10,140 managing about 13 people at the time we 507 00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:12,840 were working in a physical office and we 508 00:19:10,140 --> 00:19:14,940 had an evacuation alarm go off at about 509 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,919 8 30 in the morning so I was on my way 510 00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:18,600 in I was in the car park I had not made 511 00:19:16,919 --> 00:19:21,840 it up to the office yet 512 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:24,179 so in the car park the alarm goes off I 513 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,160 had no idea who was in the office yet 514 00:19:24,179 --> 00:19:29,220 and who was not 515 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:31,200 and I just went straight up the street 516 00:19:29,220 --> 00:19:33,600 straight up to the evacuation point and 517 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:36,900 started madly texting everybody 518 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:39,179 so I'm just sending texts out saying are 519 00:19:36,900 --> 00:19:40,799 you in the office yet I need you to get 520 00:19:39,179 --> 00:19:42,240 to the evacuation point you need to head 521 00:19:40,799 --> 00:19:44,039 count all the rest 522 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,020 and it was only after we were allowed 523 00:19:44,039 --> 00:19:50,280 back in the building about an hour later 524 00:19:46,020 --> 00:19:53,160 that I realized I had forgotten someone 525 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,900 now it ended okay 526 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,160 turned out she just hadn't gotten into 527 00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:57,480 the office yet she was running a bit 528 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,120 late that day 529 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,380 but that could have ended up with one of 530 00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,220 my team members trapped in a burning 531 00:20:01,380 --> 00:20:05,400 building 532 00:20:02,220 --> 00:20:06,900 and I would have had no idea until it 533 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,539 was too late 534 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:11,220 if you can't reliably remember every 535 00:20:09,539 --> 00:20:12,299 single one of your team members under 536 00:20:11,220 --> 00:20:15,620 pressure 537 00:20:12,299 --> 00:20:18,000 you have too many direct reports 538 00:20:15,620 --> 00:20:21,059 so if you find yourself in this 539 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,700 situation you need to set up some groups 540 00:20:21,059 --> 00:20:25,080 you can do this several ways but one 541 00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:27,600 thing I would recommend is that you 542 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,820 ensure the groups are porous make sure 543 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,919 it's easy for people to move in and out 544 00:20:29,820 --> 00:20:33,960 of your different groups and that all of 545 00:20:31,919 --> 00:20:36,419 your processes stay the same across 546 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,100 groups also make sure that you're 547 00:20:36,419 --> 00:20:40,380 keeping on top of culture and social 548 00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:42,419 issues it's super important 549 00:20:40,380 --> 00:20:44,460 so the leaders of each group should be 550 00:20:42,419 --> 00:20:45,660 your direct reports make sure you're 551 00:20:44,460 --> 00:20:48,360 meeting with your direct reports 552 00:20:45,660 --> 00:20:50,220 regularly weekly if you can but don't 553 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:52,679 neglect the people who report to them 554 00:20:50,220 --> 00:20:55,080 make sure you keep yourself available to 555 00:20:52,679 --> 00:20:58,620 them speak directly to them whenever you 556 00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:01,140 can and you when you speak directly to 557 00:20:58,620 --> 00:21:02,820 your to your reports reports just do it 558 00:21:01,140 --> 00:21:05,640 on a slightly less frequent Cadence 559 00:21:02,820 --> 00:21:06,960 fortnightly or monthly or even once a 560 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,820 quarter 561 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,860 team leadership is actually a really 562 00:21:08,820 --> 00:21:12,720 good way for people who want to move 563 00:21:10,860 --> 00:21:14,640 into management to try out a low stakes 564 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,080 management role as well and it's a great 565 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,760 way for you to expand your management 566 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,100 skills as well because you're managing 567 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:21,840 managers and that brings me neatly to 568 00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:23,520 the next point 569 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:26,400 which is that you need to consider the 570 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:29,039 career paths you are offering your team 571 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:31,919 I am very much in favor of providing two 572 00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:33,720 career tracks for my for my team one for 573 00:21:31,919 --> 00:21:35,700 people who want to go into traditional 574 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,799 leadership and people management roles 575 00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:39,780 and one for people who want to grow into 576 00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:41,400 a technical role without taking on 577 00:21:39,780 --> 00:21:44,039 management tasks 578 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:46,080 so a technical career track in a docs 579 00:21:44,039 --> 00:21:48,120 organization would typically lead up to 580 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,460 rules to roles sorry like information 581 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:52,919 architect documentation engineer or 582 00:21:50,460 --> 00:21:54,659 content strategist 583 00:21:52,919 --> 00:21:56,520 to remember when you're talking about 584 00:21:54,659 --> 00:21:58,440 career tracks with your team members too 585 00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,840 that not everyone is going to want to 586 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,940 stay in a documentation team you may 587 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,860 lose team members to roles in 588 00:22:02,940 --> 00:22:07,200 engineering project management or 589 00:22:04,860 --> 00:22:09,000 marketing and that's okay 590 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,620 you need to make sure you're helping 591 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,600 your team members achieve the things 592 00:22:10,620 --> 00:22:15,380 that are right for them even if it takes 593 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,380 them out of your team 594 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:20,520 so I mentioned this topic briefly at the 595 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,220 beginning of the talk but I'd like to 596 00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:25,020 revisit the idea of Team structure 597 00:22:23,220 --> 00:22:27,900 so let's imagine that you have five 598 00:22:25,020 --> 00:22:30,659 writers and three main product lines 599 00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:32,760 it's tempting to put three writers on 600 00:22:30,659 --> 00:22:35,460 your biggest product and then have the 601 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:37,400 other two dedicated to the smaller ones 602 00:22:35,460 --> 00:22:39,720 now this isn't necessarily a problem 603 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,580 everyone talks to each other we're 604 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,500 sharing ideas we're all using the same 605 00:22:41,580 --> 00:22:45,059 tools and we can all come to each other 606 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:48,120 for help 607 00:22:45,059 --> 00:22:51,360 the problem arises when you have Alex 608 00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:54,360 working on product a over here 609 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:56,940 and they get sick or they quit and 610 00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:59,700 someone else has to pick up that work at 611 00:22:56,940 --> 00:23:01,440 that point you realize that Alex had a 612 00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:03,900 bunch of product knowledge that no one 613 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,460 else has they've been attending product 614 00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:07,559 meetings they've established 615 00:23:05,460 --> 00:23:08,880 relationships with developers and 616 00:23:07,559 --> 00:23:11,340 they've been playing with the product 617 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:13,200 for some time and that's not something 618 00:23:11,340 --> 00:23:15,240 that someone else can easily step into 619 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:18,419 at a moment's notice 620 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:20,580 so some of these things you can mitigate 621 00:23:18,419 --> 00:23:23,100 you can mitigate them by implementing 622 00:23:20,580 --> 00:23:25,320 policies about frequent reporting making 623 00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:27,780 sure all work including drafts is done 624 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:29,100 in an open fashion and recording 625 00:23:27,780 --> 00:23:30,720 meetings and meeting notes whenever 626 00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:32,940 possible 627 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:35,520 technology is hard one by your team 628 00:23:32,940 --> 00:23:37,679 members and no amount of note-taking or 629 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,020 policy making is going to mitigate that 630 00:23:37,679 --> 00:23:41,400 kind of product loss sorry knowledge 631 00:23:40,020 --> 00:23:43,140 laws 632 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,419 if you want to keep your dedicated 633 00:23:43,140 --> 00:23:47,940 writers you absolutely can Implement 634 00:23:45,419 --> 00:23:49,799 some job shadowing this allows people to 635 00:23:47,940 --> 00:23:51,900 go and spend a few days or a week 636 00:23:49,799 --> 00:23:54,120 working on another product that has a 637 00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:56,100 dedicated writer on it it doesn't fully 638 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:58,860 resolve the problem but at least you 639 00:23:56,100 --> 00:24:00,659 have someone else in the team you know 640 00:23:58,860 --> 00:24:02,940 has had has at least a little bit of 641 00:24:00,659 --> 00:24:04,860 that knowledge and can sort of pick up 642 00:24:02,940 --> 00:24:07,140 the threads if needed 643 00:24:04,860 --> 00:24:08,520 the alternative which I prefer is to use 644 00:24:07,140 --> 00:24:10,260 a Services model 645 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,120 this is where the documentation team 646 00:24:10,260 --> 00:24:14,400 acts as a Consulting agency to 647 00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:17,220 engineering so a doctor Quest comes in 648 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,500 someone takes it product teams won't get 649 00:24:17,220 --> 00:24:22,260 the same writer every time but work gets 650 00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:23,820 done by the next available writer this 651 00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:25,380 means that deliverables won't fall 652 00:24:23,820 --> 00:24:27,960 through the cracks if writers take some 653 00:24:25,380 --> 00:24:30,000 time off and best of all when people 654 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:33,840 leave your group they don't you don't 655 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:36,419 lose an entire body of knowledge as well 656 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:38,520 so just in case it wasn't obvious I live 657 00:24:36,419 --> 00:24:40,080 in Australia which means that for most 658 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,400 of my career I've been living on the 659 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,500 wrong side of the world 660 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,360 this means that I spend a whole lot more 661 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:47,880 time thinking about time zones than most 662 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:50,159 people and if you're based in an office 663 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,620 and or your team are with you in that 664 00:24:50,159 --> 00:24:54,900 same office then time zones might not be 665 00:24:52,620 --> 00:24:57,360 something you need to think about a lot 666 00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:59,100 but with more teams going remote and 667 00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:01,740 more companies like time scale being 668 00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:04,260 globally remote time zones are something 669 00:25:01,740 --> 00:25:06,980 that you need to be able to handle at 670 00:25:04,260 --> 00:25:10,140 some point and it's actually really hard 671 00:25:06,980 --> 00:25:12,000 as much as I preach a work ethic of 672 00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:13,799 making sure you're having downtime not 673 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,500 checking email on the weekends that kind 674 00:25:13,799 --> 00:25:18,600 of thing time zones mean sometimes you 675 00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:21,780 need to be working at a time when let's 676 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:24,419 face it we'd rather be in bed 677 00:25:21,780 --> 00:25:27,179 sometimes you do need to take a virtual 678 00:25:24,419 --> 00:25:29,100 meeting at 7am and that's cool do it in 679 00:25:27,179 --> 00:25:31,200 your pajamas have your coffee in hand 680 00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:33,419 don't be afraid to yawn 681 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,940 it's important to be honest about the 682 00:25:33,419 --> 00:25:37,440 time zone you're working in and it's 683 00:25:35,940 --> 00:25:39,779 also important that you don't need to 684 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,880 say yes to everything 685 00:25:39,779 --> 00:25:44,520 if you have a facility in your 686 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,440 organization where people can see your 687 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,080 calendar and book meetings with you you 688 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,779 should be able to set availability and I 689 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,940 don't just mean nine to five I have set 690 00:25:51,779 --> 00:25:56,580 availability in my morning and my 691 00:25:53,940 --> 00:25:58,140 evening and but I block out times around 692 00:25:56,580 --> 00:25:59,340 meals so I can spend that time with my 693 00:25:58,140 --> 00:26:02,159 family 694 00:25:59,340 --> 00:26:03,960 so on top of personal considerations you 695 00:26:02,159 --> 00:26:07,080 also need to consider where your team is 696 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:09,299 located if you have say everyone in the 697 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:12,419 continental United States except one 698 00:26:09,299 --> 00:26:14,760 person who is in say Australia 699 00:26:12,419 --> 00:26:16,860 that poor person in Australia is going 700 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,299 to feel a little bit isolated that 701 00:26:16,860 --> 00:26:20,400 doesn't mean you shouldn't hire people 702 00:26:18,299 --> 00:26:21,779 in a different time zone it just means 703 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,340 you need to put in that little bit of 704 00:26:21,779 --> 00:26:24,659 extra effort to make sure that they're 705 00:26:23,340 --> 00:26:26,960 included and that they're getting 706 00:26:24,659 --> 00:26:26,960 information 707 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,980 so let's talk about meetings 708 00:26:31,620 --> 00:26:36,240 probably the main thing that will drive 709 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:38,940 home to you that you're a manager now is 710 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:41,279 that you'll be doing more meetings and a 711 00:26:38,940 --> 00:26:43,320 whole lot less actual work 712 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:45,120 so yes you'll be doing all the meetings 713 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:47,039 you did before but now you'll also be 714 00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:49,200 doing a whole lot of one-on-one meetings 715 00:26:47,039 --> 00:26:51,299 with your staff and they're the ones I 716 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:53,460 want to talk about first 717 00:26:51,299 --> 00:26:54,840 if you're anything like me you'll come 718 00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:56,460 to a point where you feel like all the 719 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,020 one-on-one meetings might actually kill 720 00:26:56,460 --> 00:27:00,900 you 721 00:26:58,020 --> 00:27:02,279 I'm living proof that they won't and I'm 722 00:27:00,900 --> 00:27:05,900 also going to tell you that you have to 723 00:27:02,279 --> 00:27:05,900 do them anyway I'm sorry 724 00:27:06,179 --> 00:27:10,860 um one-on-one meetings are not actually 725 00:27:08,039 --> 00:27:13,200 there for your benefit I mean you will 726 00:27:10,860 --> 00:27:15,900 benefit from them but that's not why 727 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:17,700 they exist it's not why we do them their 728 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:19,260 primary purpose is to communicate to 729 00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:20,159 your team members that you care about 730 00:27:19,260 --> 00:27:21,900 them 731 00:27:20,159 --> 00:27:25,260 that you care about what they're working 732 00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:26,279 on and that you are above all listening 733 00:27:25,260 --> 00:27:28,440 to them 734 00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:30,240 if you spend your one-on-one meetings 735 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,520 doing all the talking then you're doing 736 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,740 it wrong 737 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,900 I like to remind my team members that 738 00:27:34,740 --> 00:27:39,000 they set the agenda for our one-on-one 739 00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:40,740 meetings whether or not they send me a 740 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,960 formal agenda ahead of time they don't 741 00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:44,880 have to 742 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:46,799 but what I like to do every one-on-one 743 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,020 meeting I have I always start with a 744 00:27:46,799 --> 00:27:52,380 question such as so how has your week 745 00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:53,520 been or you know what's going on how are 746 00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:55,980 things for you 747 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:58,980 let your team member talk about whatever 748 00:27:55,980 --> 00:28:01,260 is on their mind work tasks how they're 749 00:27:58,980 --> 00:28:03,299 getting along with other colleagues tool 750 00:28:01,260 --> 00:28:04,559 complaints anything at all even their 751 00:28:03,299 --> 00:28:06,919 personal life if that's what they want 752 00:28:04,559 --> 00:28:06,919 to talk about 753 00:28:07,020 --> 00:28:13,020 you do not need to solve each problem as 754 00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:15,480 things come up but you do need to be 755 00:28:13,020 --> 00:28:17,039 actively listening and you need to find 756 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,659 out if there's an action that they would 757 00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:21,480 like you to take 758 00:28:18,659 --> 00:28:23,700 if they do ask you to do something make 759 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,320 sure you do it take a note make sure you 760 00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:27,000 report back to them in a timely manner 761 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,820 even if it's to say that you couldn't do 762 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:32,220 it a bit above all make sure your team 763 00:28:29,820 --> 00:28:34,380 members feel heard 764 00:28:32,220 --> 00:28:35,820 and that brings us to the dreaded team 765 00:28:34,380 --> 00:28:38,580 meeting 766 00:28:35,820 --> 00:28:41,580 this is the meeting where you as the 767 00:28:38,580 --> 00:28:43,740 manager get to do all the talking 768 00:28:41,580 --> 00:28:46,140 how you structure this is entirely up to 769 00:28:43,740 --> 00:28:48,360 you I would recommend that you do at 770 00:28:46,140 --> 00:28:49,919 least some kind of an overview of what 771 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:52,020 people have been working on since the 772 00:28:49,919 --> 00:28:53,700 last meeting and some kind of planning 773 00:28:52,020 --> 00:28:55,380 for what's coming up 774 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:57,120 I also like to make sure I have an open 775 00:28:55,380 --> 00:28:59,580 Agenda so people can add their own 776 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,799 things to the list for discussion 777 00:28:59,580 --> 00:29:03,900 clay I use this meeting for calibrating 778 00:29:01,799 --> 00:29:06,720 the team on current events and what 779 00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:10,159 we're all as a group working towards and 780 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,159 prioritizing right now 781 00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:13,980 way of me communicating to the entire 782 00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,080 team 783 00:29:13,980 --> 00:29:18,720 I don't want to be communicating to 784 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:21,240 individuals in their one-on-one unless 785 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:22,380 it's specific to that person so save the 786 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,000 general announcements for the team 787 00:29:22,380 --> 00:29:26,340 meetings 788 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,559 but if you remember just one thing about 789 00:29:26,340 --> 00:29:31,260 meetings and let it be this 790 00:29:28,559 --> 00:29:34,559 always praise in public and criticize in 791 00:29:31,260 --> 00:29:37,080 private no backbiting or complaining in 792 00:29:34,559 --> 00:29:38,279 the team meeting and save the advice for 793 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,440 your one-on-ones 794 00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:42,480 one thing I have seen a lot of people do 795 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,679 is use their team meeting for sort of 796 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,779 these passive aggressive kind of 797 00:29:43,679 --> 00:29:48,120 comments like and don't forget to use a 798 00:29:45,779 --> 00:29:50,220 meaningful commit message that kind of 799 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,559 thing save that for the one-on-ones with 800 00:29:50,220 --> 00:29:54,120 the people who actually need to hear it 801 00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:56,880 uh the people who actually need a 802 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,620 reminder that that's for a few reasons 803 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,899 it will mean more if it's delivered 804 00:29:58,620 --> 00:30:02,880 personally but it also gives people a 805 00:30:00,899 --> 00:30:05,100 chance to ask questions if they 806 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:07,200 genuinely need help rather than risking 807 00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:09,240 embarrassing themselves in a public in a 808 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,919 public forum 809 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,200 um I do want to add that there are 810 00:30:10,919 --> 00:30:14,700 exceptions to this rule it's usually for 811 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,500 more serious matters like abuse or 812 00:30:14,700 --> 00:30:18,720 bullying and so I'm just not going to 813 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:20,100 cover those here as a completely 814 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,279 different topic so but there are 815 00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:24,600 exceptions is my point the final note 816 00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:27,539 that I want to make about conducting 817 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:30,480 team meetings is to check who has agency 818 00:30:27,539 --> 00:30:33,240 who is talking the most who is answering 819 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:35,039 questions who is suggesting agenda items 820 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,880 who is sitting in the corner not saying 821 00:30:35,039 --> 00:30:38,580 anything 822 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,380 not everyone can or will want to speak 823 00:30:38,580 --> 00:30:41,220 up and you absolutely should not make 824 00:30:40,380 --> 00:30:42,840 them 825 00:30:41,220 --> 00:30:47,240 but at least make sure they have the 826 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,240 opportunity to do so if they wish to 827 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,799 so I appreciate that at least some of 828 00:30:50,460 --> 00:30:54,240 this talk sounds like I live in a 829 00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:56,640 perfect world 830 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:58,860 and while time scale is pretty great 831 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:01,380 it's um I also have to live here in the 832 00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:03,000 real world with all the rest of you so 833 00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:04,740 this final part of my talk is about 834 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:07,520 dealing with things when things aren't 835 00:31:04,740 --> 00:31:07,520 going so great 836 00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:14,220 hiring is hard and it's also an 837 00:31:11,159 --> 00:31:15,600 incredibly imprecise science 838 00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:17,820 so that means you're not going to get it 839 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,460 right every time 840 00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:22,200 fortunately most of most people will 841 00:31:20,460 --> 00:31:24,059 actually pretty quickly work out if 842 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:26,220 they're not fitting in or if they're 843 00:31:24,059 --> 00:31:27,779 just not enjoying the work and most will 844 00:31:26,220 --> 00:31:29,940 choose to move on all of their own 845 00:31:27,779 --> 00:31:31,320 volition that's not always going to 846 00:31:29,940 --> 00:31:33,240 happen though 847 00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:35,039 and sometimes you will need to intervene 848 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,620 before things get toxic 849 00:31:35,039 --> 00:31:39,059 always start by having an open and 850 00:31:37,620 --> 00:31:40,500 honest conversation with the person 851 00:31:39,059 --> 00:31:42,480 involved 852 00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:44,700 to prepare for that conversation you 853 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,760 need to start by talking to your own 854 00:31:44,700 --> 00:31:49,919 manager and possibly your HR department 855 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:52,080 not because you necessarily want to fire 856 00:31:49,919 --> 00:31:53,880 your team member but because you need to 857 00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,340 make sure you understand what you can 858 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:58,620 and can't do in this situation and what 859 00:31:56,340 --> 00:32:01,380 the process is to get to that point 860 00:31:58,620 --> 00:32:03,179 in some jurisdictions that process can 861 00:32:01,380 --> 00:32:04,740 actually be really lengthy and it will 862 00:32:03,179 --> 00:32:07,860 require a significant amount of 863 00:32:04,740 --> 00:32:10,320 preparation and very careful language 864 00:32:07,860 --> 00:32:12,899 additionally your company might have 865 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,340 specific rules and regulations that you 866 00:32:12,899 --> 00:32:15,779 need to follow as well 867 00:32:14,340 --> 00:32:18,179 so once you've had that first 868 00:32:15,779 --> 00:32:19,380 conversation with your manager and I'm 869 00:32:18,179 --> 00:32:21,240 sorry the first conversation with your 870 00:32:19,380 --> 00:32:23,820 team member you might be pleasantly 871 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:26,100 surprised many people just don't 872 00:32:23,820 --> 00:32:28,620 actually realize that what they're doing 873 00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:31,200 is disruptive or as otherwise unhelpful 874 00:32:28,620 --> 00:32:33,059 until you point it out and many people 875 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,399 are actually happy and happy enough to 876 00:32:33,059 --> 00:32:37,980 try and make that change no one wants to 877 00:32:35,399 --> 00:32:39,720 put their job in Jeopardy especially if 878 00:32:37,980 --> 00:32:41,520 they like the work 879 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:44,279 unfortunately though that's not always 880 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,679 the case and in that situation which 881 00:32:44,279 --> 00:32:48,419 hopefully is very rare you will either 882 00:32:46,679 --> 00:32:50,520 need to encourage them to find a role 883 00:32:48,419 --> 00:32:52,440 more suited to them or go through the 884 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:55,080 process to remove them entirely 885 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:57,899 whatever happens though make sure you 886 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,460 record everything you remain polite you 887 00:32:57,899 --> 00:33:01,320 work with your management and your HR 888 00:32:59,460 --> 00:33:02,760 team and you continue to act in good 889 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,980 faith 890 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,679 remember to review all your practices 891 00:33:04,980 --> 00:33:10,340 afterwards as well see if there's ways 892 00:33:07,679 --> 00:33:10,340 that you can improve 893 00:33:11,220 --> 00:33:15,960 team structure problems are in many ways 894 00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:18,799 easier to recover from 895 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:21,360 however they're often harder to spot 896 00:33:18,799 --> 00:33:23,279 it's entirely possible that you think 897 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,380 your team structure is working well 898 00:33:23,279 --> 00:33:26,519 while people on your team think that it 899 00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:28,559 is not 900 00:33:26,519 --> 00:33:30,059 it's also possible that some people on 901 00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:32,340 your team love the way you're doing 902 00:33:30,059 --> 00:33:34,740 things and others don't and it's 903 00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:36,779 sometimes for the same reason 904 00:33:34,740 --> 00:33:38,760 the best advice I can give you on this 905 00:33:36,779 --> 00:33:40,860 is to keep talking to people 906 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,179 this is the type of conversation you 907 00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:44,159 want to be having in your one-on-ones 908 00:33:42,179 --> 00:33:46,380 primarily 909 00:33:44,159 --> 00:33:48,480 but don't be afraid to tweak things in 910 00:33:46,380 --> 00:33:50,159 your structure and try things out too 911 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,320 and you can use your team meetings for 912 00:33:50,159 --> 00:33:54,899 this to say I've been thinking about 913 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:56,279 trying this thing what do you all think 914 00:33:54,899 --> 00:33:58,200 about that 915 00:33:56,279 --> 00:34:00,240 that way your staff know that you're up 916 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,100 for changing things and that you can 917 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,360 take feedback on structure decisions as 918 00:34:02,100 --> 00:34:05,640 well 919 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:07,019 and I guess the addendum to that is to 920 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,839 make sure that you admit when you make a 921 00:34:07,019 --> 00:34:13,520 mistake too if you change something and 922 00:34:09,839 --> 00:34:13,520 it just doesn't hit change it back 923 00:34:14,099 --> 00:34:18,599 sometimes you end up in a situation 924 00:34:16,020 --> 00:34:20,760 where just everything is terrible 925 00:34:18,599 --> 00:34:23,040 this has happened to me when I've walked 926 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:26,159 in as a new manager to an existing team 927 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:28,080 if the team has a terrible culture bad 928 00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:30,000 work practices and a rotten attitude 929 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,020 it's a really difficult ship to turn 930 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,720 around 931 00:34:31,020 --> 00:34:35,639 the key here though is culture encourage 932 00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:38,280 open communication make sure you 933 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:39,899 demonstrate trustworthiness and engage 934 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,919 your team members in the process of 935 00:34:39,899 --> 00:34:44,040 improving 936 00:34:40,919 --> 00:34:45,720 it could take a long time but I promise 937 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,899 it will be absolutely worth the hard 938 00:34:45,720 --> 00:34:47,899 work 939 00:34:47,940 --> 00:34:52,619 finally I'd like to end on a note from a 940 00:34:50,339 --> 00:34:54,659 dedicated leader and public servant 941 00:34:52,619 --> 00:34:56,879 who tells us that the reason we do these 942 00:34:54,659 --> 00:34:58,740 things is because we get to work hard at 943 00:34:56,879 --> 00:35:01,560 work worth doing 944 00:34:58,740 --> 00:35:04,020 management isn't for everyone but I 945 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,980 personally love the challenge of leading 946 00:35:04,020 --> 00:35:07,080 people 947 00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:08,880 for me it's about taking the time to 948 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,859 find out what makes an individual tick 949 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,320 and how I can best put them in a place 950 00:35:10,859 --> 00:35:15,480 that satisfies them whether it's finding 951 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,160 them work that they find meaningful a 952 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,320 team that they enjoy spending time with 953 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,240 or just a great atmosphere to rock up 954 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,040 and work in each day 955 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:25,020 it's important to remember that what 956 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:27,240 motivates people is more than just a 957 00:35:25,020 --> 00:35:29,339 paycheck it's also about giving them 958 00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:31,680 meaningful work that they enjoy and that 959 00:35:29,339 --> 00:35:34,260 they can work hard and Excel at 960 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:36,780 so go and find your team and get to work 961 00:35:34,260 --> 00:35:40,079 if you want to come work with me and my 962 00:35:36,780 --> 00:35:41,820 team time scale our hiring mostly still 963 00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:43,500 all across the organization although 964 00:35:41,820 --> 00:35:46,740 we've scaled back a little bit recently 965 00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:48,359 and we are globally remote so please 966 00:35:46,740 --> 00:35:50,700 check out our careers page you can scan 967 00:35:48,359 --> 00:35:52,079 the QR code or go to timescale.com 968 00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:54,359 careers 969 00:35:52,079 --> 00:35:57,619 and thank you thank you for listening I 970 00:35:54,359 --> 00:35:57,619 really appreciate you spending the time 971 00:35:59,730 --> 00:36:02,789 [Applause] 972 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,680 do we have time for questions thank you 973 00:36:05,820 --> 00:36:10,440 Lana yes we've got time we've got three 974 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:12,780 minutes for questions which is maybe two 975 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,520 questions or three micro questions or 976 00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:17,000 any questions 977 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,000 yes 978 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:24,060 please speak 979 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:27,960 um have you got any tips or advice for 980 00:36:24,060 --> 00:36:28,980 groups that are like our team for 981 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,619 instance is more like technical 982 00:36:28,980 --> 00:36:34,380 Engineers that are 10 technical 983 00:36:31,619 --> 00:36:36,180 documentation writers for instance that 984 00:36:34,380 --> 00:36:38,280 cover a few different service Stacks 985 00:36:36,180 --> 00:36:40,020 whereas I feel like most of the stuff 986 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,560 you're talking about today are primarily 987 00:36:40,020 --> 00:36:45,900 technical or documentation writing roles 988 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:49,020 um how do you find that change or shift 989 00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:51,060 in a team that I make and any advice a 990 00:36:49,020 --> 00:36:52,560 multi-disciplinary teams are awesome can 991 00:36:51,060 --> 00:36:54,800 I say and I wish I'd had an opportunity 992 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:57,420 to manage more of them 993 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,040 so I'm primarily going from my own 994 00:36:57,420 --> 00:37:00,960 experience here which has been primarily 995 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,560 documentation teams 996 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,660 um 997 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:07,980 I think 998 00:37:03,660 --> 00:37:11,220 management is a skill you can learn and 999 00:37:07,980 --> 00:37:12,599 I don't think at its at its most basic I 1000 00:37:11,220 --> 00:37:14,700 don't think it matters who you're 1001 00:37:12,599 --> 00:37:16,320 managing especially when we're talking 1002 00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:18,900 about just you know technical people 1003 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,280 generally technical people right 1004 00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:23,160 um I 1005 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:25,980 suspect if you're a good manager you can 1006 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,839 probably manage just about anybody 1007 00:37:25,980 --> 00:37:29,820 um I think with multi-disciplinary teams 1008 00:37:27,839 --> 00:37:32,579 you've got more interesting questions 1009 00:37:29,820 --> 00:37:34,440 about team structure and how we we move 1010 00:37:32,579 --> 00:37:36,060 between groups and how we assign work 1011 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,700 items that kind of thing the sort of 1012 00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:40,200 more practical Hands-On things and I'm 1013 00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,880 probably not the best person to advise 1014 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,440 you on that because I haven't managed 1015 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,320 that many multi-disciplinary teams 1016 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,700 although I am currently in one 1017 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,220 um so yeah I probably don't have 1018 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:51,660 anything specific to tell you all I 1019 00:37:50,220 --> 00:37:53,520 would remind you is a good good 1020 00:37:51,660 --> 00:37:54,780 management good management especially of 1021 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,760 technical people I think you can 1022 00:37:54,780 --> 00:37:58,140 probably manage anybody so work work on 1023 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,000 those management skills and you'll get 1024 00:37:58,140 --> 00:38:02,880 somewhere 1025 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:05,700 thank you ever got any more questions 1026 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:07,560 going once going twice 1027 00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:10,560 thank you Lana 1028 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,560 foreign