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hi everyone welcome back to our last

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talk of the day here in the devops track

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devops track oops oops

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oops

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i hope you uh been able to hold on

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through the whole day it has been a long

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day full of great tr of great talks uh

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and this last one is is one that i've

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been looking forward to for a while it's

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by dawn e collette and it's called

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accessibility overlays a cautionary tale

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and we are going to take advantage of

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one of the benefits of being online

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uh because this is a pre-recorded talk

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but dawn is here with us and we'll be

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able to talk to you and answer questions

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while also presenting to you

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simultaneously

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so do ask do ask questions uh in the

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chat there and hopefully at the end

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we'll also be able to get dawn on and do

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some interactive q a as well to round

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out the day

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so now we'll throw over to the talk uh

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by dawn

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hello everyone and welcome to pycon au

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2021 once again from the comfort of your

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own home it's great to be back here

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again this year um today i will be

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talking to you about a cautionary tale

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from the modern tech industry and that

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is about accessibility overlays

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if you do want to follow along as i'm

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speaking then you can go to the github

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link on the slide that's up at the

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moment which will show you my sources or

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you can just scan the qr code with your

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phone and then you'll be able to bring

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up my sources

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before we start i do want to take the

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time to acknowledge the war injury

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people of the kulin nation on whose land

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this talk was recorded

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and all of the other aboriginal and

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torres strait islander people and groups

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around australia this is and always will

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be aboriginal land their sovereignty was

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never seeded

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now

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this story starts when

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a year and change ago i went out and i

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bought myself a new laptop um this is a

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picture of it it is a thinkpad x1 carbon

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it is a fantastic laptop and the range

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of stickers on it should be absolutely

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no surprise whatsoever to anyone who

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knows me well at all

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and whenever i buy myself a new machine

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i have a sort of run book that i go

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through in terms of things that i need

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to set up

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and as part of that run book

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one thing that i generally set up very

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early on when i acquire a new machine is

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nvda

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the free and open source screen reader

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for windows

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now i don't do that because i rely on

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screen readers

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in the day-to-day i will generally do

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that because

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it's very useful to have a screen reader

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on your machine to test websites

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particularly if you are going to give

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websites to blind or vision impaired

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people or screen reader users it's good

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to be able to test them so that you can

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get a feel for what's going on on those

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websites

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and so as i'm going through the rest of

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the run book of things that i tend to

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set up you know downloading other

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programs setting up ad blocking and

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script blocking software on my machine

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um

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i hear this really odd phrase

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something that i've never actually heard

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nvda say to me before

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press alt plus one for screen reader

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mode

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and i thought about that and i thought

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that's a bit weird i don't think that

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sounds like a common command prompt or a

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common prompt that nvda would give me

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and then i realized that i'd heard about

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these things before

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welcome to the world of accessibility

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overlays

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if you ask the people who develop and

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sell accessibility overlays then they

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are a one line of code solution that you

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can add to your website which will

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automatically remediate all kinds of

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accessibility issues

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and you might think that that sounds too

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good to be true

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but in order to test that claim

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first of all we need to understand a

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little bit about disability rights and

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primarily how disability rights have

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kind of grown and changed with the

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advent of the internet

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because

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in a lot of countries around the world

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disability rights legislation actually

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predates the widespread use of the

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internet

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um and spoiler more often than not uh if

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you want to exercise your disability

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rights on the internet you do actually

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have to sue for them

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and we can demonstrate this by having a

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look at some lawsuits around the world

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and

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this little tour starts in

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2010 when a blind lady by the name of

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donna jordan someone who used a screen

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reader to get around the internet um

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decided that she wanted to plot to apply

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for a job with the canadian government

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and so she using her screen reader

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found her way to the canadian government

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jobs website and she discovered that it

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was in fact inaccessible she could not

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navigate around it with her screen

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reader

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and so she did what many many people

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before her have had to do in order to

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exercise their disability rights and she

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filed a lawsuit against the canadian

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government

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she won that lawsuit she won again on

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appeal

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and the end result of that was the

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canadian government was required to make

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their government jobs website accessible

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not just to screen reader users but to

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all sorts of other people with

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disabilities

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and so that was kind of the first

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frontier establishing that in canada the

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government had the obligation to make

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all of their websites accessible

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then we come to australia where we're

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going to go and do some grocery shopping

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at kohl's um and we're going to ride

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along here with a lady by the name of

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giselle maznash a sydney cider blind

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from birth and a screen reader user now

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being someone who enjoyed her

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independence

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she very often did her grocery shopping

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using kohl's online and when she started

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doing that in 2008 the cole's online

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shopping website was actually perfectly

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accessible to her

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but after a couple of redesigns that was

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no longer the case and she didn't want

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to go straight out

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and acquire herself a lawyer so

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initially

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she actually tried to engage in a

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dialogue with calls to sit down and sort

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of have a discussion with them about hey

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can we look at ways that we can actually

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you know that you can actually improve

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this website so that i'm going to be

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able to use it

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and after that turned out to be

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fruitless

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she decided that she had to go for the

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nuclear option and so she went and again

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acquired a lawyer and she sued coles

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this actually ended much quicker than

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the canadian government jobs website

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lawsuit because i imagine what happened

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here was that a few lawyers at kohl's

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probably sat around a boardroom um

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probably in their hawthorne office

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and they probably had a long discussion

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uh that ended in a lot of oh dear and a

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lot of swear words

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and they decided to their credit that

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the best way to deal with with this

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lawsuit was to settle it

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part of the settlement that giselle

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mesnage and coles came to was that calls

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were actually required then to make

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their online shopping website accessible

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and that's something that they still

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have a really strong commitment to today

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but oddly enough if we talk particularly

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about legislation around disability the

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home of disability legislation is a

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country that many people might not think

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of immediately when they think of it and

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that is the united states of america

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31 years ago just a bit over 31 years

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ago in the us

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they passed the americans with

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disabilities act which was widely

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considered at the time and still is

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actually to be one of the most

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comprehensive pieces of legislation that

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covers disability and disability access

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and disability rights issues

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and one thing that they tend to talk

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about a lot that's actually specifically

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defined in the americans with

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disabilities act

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is the concept of a place of public

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accommodation and that's not just saying

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you know that the government has to be

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accessible but if you were to go to the

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white house or to congress that they

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have to be accessible

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what we're actually saying when we talk

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about a place of public accommodation is

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that anywhere in public where you would

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expect people to go

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has to be accessible under the americans

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with disabilities act

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so that means that if you wanted to say

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uh go down to your local domino's pizza

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and order some pizza for yourself and

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whomever might be with you at the time

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domino's pizza is required if you are

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safe blind

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to make that domino's pizza outlet

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accessible to you

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but what happens when you don't want to

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walk down to your local domino's pizza

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to order yourself a pizza you want to

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use domino's online website instead

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well a gentleman by the name of

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guillermo robles also blind also a

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screen reader user did in fact try to

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order a pizza on the domino's pizza

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online ordering website and he

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discovered

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probably to nobody's surprise at this

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point that it was not accessible to him

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so again

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entered into the kind of process that

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the ada requires around an interactive

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discussion eventually had to get himself

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a lawyer

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now

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unlike donna jordan and giselle messnage

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guillermo robles actually lost his case

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in the lower court

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and it was appealed all the way to the

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supreme court um what happened here when

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it was appealed to the supreme court was

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they actually said this case has been

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decided incorrectly they reminded it

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back to the lower court to be decided

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and what we might find as a result of

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that is that

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along with the right that exists already

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in countries like canada and australia

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that's been tested through lawsuits that

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in the us it may soon become the case

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that

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places of public accommodation are not

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just physical outlets that the virtual

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world also has to be a place of public

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accommodation as well so

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if your domino's pizza franchise has to

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be accessible physically the e-commerce

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site by where you would order go and

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order some pizza equally has to be

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accessible

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so

285
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before we go back to the accessibility

286
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overlays let's kind of go through some

287
00:10:29,839 --> 00:10:35,360
of the things that we have to do in

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order to make websites accessible

289
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and

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because a lot of the lawsuits and a lot

291
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of the cases that we're talking about

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here have been around screen reader

293
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users

294
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we will also look or i sort of want to

295
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focus here on

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common access fails specifically related

297
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to screen reader use

298
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and there are quite a few of them

299
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you've got things like incorrect heading

300
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levels because

301
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screen reader users tend to use the

302
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,160
heading level to actually navigate a

303
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website and work out whether they want

304
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,640
to read all of the body text so if you

305
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mess up your heading levels or you've

306
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got you know neatly defined heading

307
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levels visually but not neatly defined

308
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,920
heading levels when you're tabbing

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through that the screen reader can read

310
00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:20,079
to you that's going to be a problem in

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terms of people being able to find the

312
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text that they want

313
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another concern that you've got there is

314
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:29,680
around things like poorly labeled tables

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poorly labeled graphs or even graphs

316
00:11:29,680 --> 00:11:33,760
where you've just stuck an image up and

317
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there's no way for a screen reader user

318
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,600
to actually see the raw information

319
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there

320
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,440
a lot of these things can be fixed by

321
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just proper formatting but something

322
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,279
that can't necessarily be fixed by

323
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proper formatting is things like drop

324
00:11:45,279 --> 00:11:50,000
downs buttons and other widgets that you

325
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would commonly see in html and there are

326
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:54,160
two ways to make those accessible the

327
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,920
older way of doing it is with aria tags

328
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,440
which are basically just tags that tell

329
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the screen reader what to read out and

330
00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,440
how to navigate

331
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but in modern html we have a concept of

332
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semantic html

333
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which is where a lot of these things

334
00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,279
have already been done

335
00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:11,440
and so all you need to do then is make

336
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sure that you use the semantic html

337
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element which is fully accessible to a

338
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screen reader

339
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:19,279
and finally one other thing that tends

340
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,760
to be a fairly big issue is not just

341
00:12:19,279 --> 00:12:23,440
images of graphs but images in general

342
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because obviously

343
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:28,399
blind or visually impaired people can't

344
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,320
necessarily see images and so what we

345
00:12:28,399 --> 00:12:32,560
need to do then

346
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:35,120
is to basically allow the screen reader

347
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:37,279
to see the image for its user and the

348
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way that you do that is by writing alt

349
00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:41,839
text which is basically a fairly short

350
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:43,360
description of the image you generally

351
00:12:41,839 --> 00:12:45,680
don't want it to be longer than about a

352
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paragraph that gets across all of the

353
00:12:45,680 --> 00:12:50,160
critical information in it

354
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and you know you attach the alt text to

355
00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:53,519
the image and then when the screen

356
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,519
reader actually comes to focus on the

357
00:12:53,519 --> 00:12:57,920
image what it will read out is not just

358
00:12:55,519 --> 00:12:59,920
oh there's an image here but here is the

359
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:02,240
alt text that the person you know that a

360
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:04,399
sighted person has used to describe this

361
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,079
image

362
00:13:04,399 --> 00:13:08,320
and you might look at a lot of those

363
00:13:06,079 --> 00:13:09,920
fairly common issues and go

364
00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:13,200
this is something that should probably

365
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:14,800
be solvable using modern ai and machine

366
00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,600
learning

367
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:17,760
well

368
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:21,519
about that

369
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:24,079
i did a talk at linda's conf au 2021

370
00:13:21,519 --> 00:13:26,480
earlier this year called the privacy tax

371
00:13:24,079 --> 00:13:28,480
it was generally focused on the topic of

372
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,720
disability and security particularly

373
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:33,279
around things like tracking and storage

374
00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,360
and misuse of personal data

375
00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:37,279
but one thing that i actually did during

376
00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,880
the process of this talk was

377
00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:40,959
rather than introducing myself in the

378
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,360
typical way i decided that i was going

379
00:13:40,959 --> 00:13:46,800
to get an ai to introduce me to the

380
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,399
audience for everyone

381
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,639
and i learned some very interesting

382
00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:52,959
things from that um this is one of the

383
00:13:50,639 --> 00:13:55,120
images that i used to introduce myself

384
00:13:52,959 --> 00:13:57,120
this is a picture of me with one of the

385
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,199
cows at the moving art installation in

386
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:00,959
shepparton which was taken in november

387
00:13:59,199 --> 00:14:03,199
2018.

388
00:14:00,959 --> 00:14:06,000
now i had actually trained an ml

389
00:14:03,199 --> 00:14:07,600
classifier to describe images for me and

390
00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:09,839
specifically what i was looking at was

391
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,000
the way that it described people

392
00:14:09,839 --> 00:14:14,160
to see could it pick up on signs of

393
00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:17,440
visible disabilities and you notice

394
00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:19,360
obviously the walking stick there

395
00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,120
but if i was going to go and describe

396
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,360
this image i would describe it as

397
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,600
something like you know this is dawn

398
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,360
wearing a boston red sox baseball cap

399
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,519
black shirt with right print and pink

400
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:31,120
trousers holding a blue walking stick

401
00:14:29,519 --> 00:14:33,600
and sitting on a cow that's painted

402
00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,199
green and blue like a mermaid

403
00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,440
and that would give you a fairly good

404
00:14:35,199 --> 00:14:39,440
description if you were reading that of

405
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:42,320
what the image might look like without

406
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:44,800
any superfluous information

407
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,959
but the absolute best that i could get

408
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,639
out of the ml model that i trained and

409
00:14:46,959 --> 00:14:51,360
do bear in mind that this was only to

410
00:14:48,639 --> 00:14:53,519
describe people was that i was a man in

411
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,360
black and white t-shirt and pink pants

412
00:14:53,519 --> 00:14:56,880
sitting on green object with blue and

413
00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,160
red stick

414
00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,320
now that gives you a pretty good

415
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,760
description of me but it doesn't really

416
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:04,240
give you a good description of what's

417
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,639
going on around me

418
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:09,760
and bear in mind this was an ml model

419
00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:11,279
that i had trained for this purpose

420
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:13,839
you know you look at companies like

421
00:15:11,279 --> 00:15:15,760
microsoft they have massive training

422
00:15:13,839 --> 00:15:18,240
data sets they have massive amounts of

423
00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:20,720
information that they can use

424
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:23,120
and even they have not really been able

425
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,279
to solve the problem of having images

426
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:28,560
described via machine learning to pick

427
00:15:25,279 --> 00:15:29,600
up on all of the important points

428
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,320
so

429
00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:34,399
that might give you some idea when we

430
00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,639
start having a look at the claims that

431
00:15:34,399 --> 00:15:37,680
these accessibility overlay companies

432
00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:39,920
make

433
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,240
about how easy it really is to bridge

434
00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:44,959
the gap using entirely automated

435
00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,959
solutions

436
00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:50,000
and these accessibility overlay

437
00:15:47,279 --> 00:15:53,440
companies started sprouting up you know

438
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:55,199
in the late 2000s early 2010s

439
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,440
and

440
00:15:55,199 --> 00:15:59,839
what they were trying to do was to solve

441
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,480
the problem of automating solutions to

442
00:15:59,839 --> 00:16:04,959
web accessibility and they make a lot of

443
00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,120
really bold claims um some that i've

444
00:16:04,959 --> 00:16:09,440
pulled from their websites things like

445
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:12,560
uh keep safe from lawsuits comply with

446
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:15,040
legislation 24 7. uh one particular

447
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:17,120
overlay company bills itself as the only

448
00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:20,160
solution that meets ada that's the

449
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,759
americans with disabilities act and wcag

450
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,320
or the web content accessibility

451
00:16:21,759 --> 00:16:26,160
guidelines 2.1 compliance through a

452
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,560
combination of advanced automation

453
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:31,519
technology and human touch advanced

454
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:33,920
automation technology i like it

455
00:16:31,519 --> 00:16:35,360
alternatively another company suggests

456
00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,920
that you can deploy this company's

457
00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:39,839
advanced website accessibility solutions

458
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,839
without refactoring your website's

459
00:16:39,839 --> 00:16:44,079
existing code

460
00:16:41,839 --> 00:16:45,519
and this is a really bold claim because

461
00:16:44,079 --> 00:16:48,000
what they're saying is that you have to

462
00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:50,240
make no changes whatsoever in order to

463
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,880
make your website accessible you just go

464
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:54,959
away you deploy their code and then it

465
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,880
works

466
00:16:54,959 --> 00:16:58,560
but in practice

467
00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,720
if you look at the ways that people have

468
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:03,120
tended to traditionally remediate a lot

469
00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:06,079
of these accessibility issues

470
00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,839
even the best compliance checkers and

471
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,679
that's just checking to see whether your

472
00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:11,760
website meets the web content

473
00:17:09,679 --> 00:17:13,439
accessibility guidelines not actually

474
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,160
remediating it

475
00:17:13,439 --> 00:17:19,679
can only sort of pick up on about 50 to

476
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:22,000
60 percent of the criteria

477
00:17:19,679 --> 00:17:24,319
and i sort of understand why a lot of

478
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,240
companies have looked to accessibility

479
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:28,000
overlays for solutions and why they've

480
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,400
proliferated as much as they have

481
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,240
because if you consider the amount of

482
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,160
money that it takes you know

483
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,919
particularly if you're a small business

484
00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,840
places like kohl's the canadian

485
00:17:35,919 --> 00:17:39,520
government domino's pizza you expect

486
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,039
them to have the money to fix these

487
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,720
sorts of things but

488
00:17:41,039 --> 00:17:44,480
a small business that might not have had

489
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,480
anyone work on their website for a few

490
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,480
years or might only have one or two

491
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,960
people developing it or might be you

492
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,039
know outsourcing it to someone

493
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,520
some external consultancy they're not

494
00:17:53,039 --> 00:17:57,280
necessarily going to have the money

495
00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,320
to be able to remediate a lot of these

496
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:03,200
accessibility issues

497
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:06,000
so the accessibility overlays sound like

498
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,600
a really appealing solution

499
00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:10,080
but in practice

500
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:12,080
when i heard that little um that little

501
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,400
sound bite of you know press alt plus

502
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:16,320
one to enter screen reader mode and

503
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,240
having realized what was actually going

504
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,320
on here through the work of a whole lot

505
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,640
of excellent people who post about

506
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:25,679
accessibility on linkedin many of whom

507
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:27,200
are linked in the sources i thought okay

508
00:18:25,679 --> 00:18:28,960
let's actually take this for a bit of a

509
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:32,960
test drive

510
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:36,000
and what i found was a bit of a mess

511
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:39,120
i you know i found things like

512
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,559
headers being inaccurate um predictably

513
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:42,720
as you would see from my little

514
00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:45,200
experiment with machine learning earlier

515
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:47,520
the ml descriptions that it provided for

516
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:50,400
images where a human hadn't written them

517
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:53,280
were pretty putrid and often didn't

518
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:57,440
actually get across critical information

519
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:59,440
um graphs were just a cluttered mess

520
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:01,440
but one thing that's really interesting

521
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:03,760
here before we even look at how well

522
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,240
they actually work

523
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:10,080
is that that little sound bite press alt

524
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:12,240
plus one to enter screen reader mode

525
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:14,320
i gave the privacy tax i talked about

526
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,600
the concept of detecting screen readers

527
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,840
um

528
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,880
i said that a lot of people really want

529
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,039
to do it

530
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,360
i said that it's very difficult to do i

531
00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:24,960
also said that it's a terrible idea for

532
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,559
a number of reasons

533
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,400
it's a terrible idea because you don't

534
00:19:26,559 --> 00:19:30,480
know whether there are people sitting

535
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,000
with your screen reader user trying to

536
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,240
actually work out what's going on while

537
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,160
you're serving different content

538
00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:39,440
it's also a terrible idea because you're

539
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:41,679
actually detecting a disability

540
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,080
so at least for this particular overlay

541
00:19:41,679 --> 00:19:46,559
that i had encountered

542
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,720
it started with an anti-pattern

543
00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:50,640
everything that it was doing was based

544
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:53,840
on an anti-pattern and that was the

545
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:57,600
anti-pattern of detecting a disability

546
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,600
and that's just for screen reader users

547
00:19:57,679 --> 00:20:02,480
so in short what we really have here if

548
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,600
you look at these accessibility overlays

549
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:07,840
is a good old-fashioned case of snake

550
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:07,840
oil

551
00:20:08,159 --> 00:20:11,360
always good particularly good when

552
00:20:10,159 --> 00:20:13,039
you're talking about things that

553
00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:14,720
actually affect people's access to

554
00:20:13,039 --> 00:20:17,520
websites that they would be using day to

555
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:19,679
day in fact in many cases if you go and

556
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,440
talk to people who are much more learned

557
00:20:19,679 --> 00:20:23,200
on the topic of accessibility and screen

558
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,720
readers than i

559
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,640
you know people who use these screen

560
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,159
readers day to day they will actually

561
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,400
tell you that in many cases these

562
00:20:28,159 --> 00:20:32,000
accessibility overlays make websites

563
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,760
worse

564
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:36,000
in fact a gentleman by the name of

565
00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:37,919
adrian roselli

566
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,600
really good accessibility guy i

567
00:20:37,919 --> 00:20:41,600
absolutely recommend you follow him if

568
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,600
you're into this kind of thing

569
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,039
had produced a blog post when these

570
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,039
accessibility overlays have been

571
00:20:45,039 --> 00:20:50,000
proliferating for a while

572
00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:52,240
uh and it was titled uh accessory will

573
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,640
get you sued excessively being the name

574
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,320
of you know one very common one of these

575
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,080
sort of more popular accessibility

576
00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,640
overlay companies

577
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,400
and he wasn't wrong because the lawsuit

578
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:04,480
started

579
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,120
and they kept coming

580
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,799
and they kept coming

581
00:21:07,120 --> 00:21:11,360
and they kept on coming and it wasn't

582
00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:13,840
just accessory that was being sued it

583
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:17,840
was websites that used all kinds of

584
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,840
accessibility overlay products

585
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,919
and that kind of gets to the core of the

586
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,600
critical promise that was made here

587
00:21:23,919 --> 00:21:27,200
which was you know

588
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,520
this is going to be an automated

589
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,440
solution to all of your problems

590
00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:34,720
the thing is though that the reality of

591
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:37,440
this is is if i were to go in somewhere

592
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:40,000
and i were to say to you you know i have

593
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,559
a one-line solution to all of your

594
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,400
security problems you can deploy this

595
00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:46,080
one line of code to your website

596
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,559
and it will solve all of your security

597
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,480
issues you would either laugh me out of

598
00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:53,200
the room or you would conclude that i

599
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:55,919
was a salesperson for a cloud provider

600
00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:58,400
which very often you know do sell you

601
00:21:55,919 --> 00:22:00,080
online security solutions

602
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,720
with the small side effect that they

603
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:05,440
tend to cost you absolutely exorbitant

604
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:07,200
amounts of money

605
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,520
so the lesson that i want to take from

606
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:12,080
this is not that

607
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:14,720
accessibility companies are bad it's not

608
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:17,440
that accessibility is even necessarily

609
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:20,240
hugely difficult to do

610
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:22,159
but it's that these products are built

611
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,159
on an anti-pattern

612
00:22:22,159 --> 00:22:26,960
they're built on an anti-pattern they

613
00:22:24,159 --> 00:22:28,559
follow anti-patterns and very often if

614
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,640
you talk to the people that they claim

615
00:22:28,559 --> 00:22:32,640
to serve they will tell you that their

616
00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,720
lives are actually worse with the

617
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,240
accessibility overlay than they were

618
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,480
without it

619
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,559
that's true to the point where there are

620
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:42,720
instructions which i promptly used on my

621
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:45,200
new machine to make accessibility

622
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:47,120
overlays go away on your machine once

623
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,640
and for all those are also linked in the

624
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:51,600
sources

625
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:54,080
but the real lesson here i think comes

626
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,679
back to not a discussion about

627
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:58,960
accessibility

628
00:22:55,679 --> 00:23:02,000
but a discussion about design patterns

629
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:05,280
so in order to look at how we improve it

630
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,640
we need to discuss the idea of one issue

631
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,440
system design

632
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,360
um which is basically

633
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,360
when people design systems very often

634
00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:15,280
they're focused on one two or three

635
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:18,159
different things that they're trying to

636
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,840
actually solve by designing this system

637
00:23:18,159 --> 00:23:21,600
and that might be that you want it to be

638
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,679
really cheap it might be that you want

639
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,280
it to be really easy to navigate it

640
00:23:23,679 --> 00:23:28,000
might be that you want it to be really

641
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,440
small code wise it might be you know

642
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,440
that you want it to have all of these

643
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,360
features it might even be that you want

644
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,200
it to be accessible or you want it to be

645
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:37,919
secure

646
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,080
but if you only take one or two or three

647
00:23:37,919 --> 00:23:41,840
things from the list of all of the

648
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,799
different considerations that need to

649
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,600
come into play when you design a system

650
00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:48,720
um

651
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:52,799
that ends up basically being the path to

652
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:56,559
crushing technical debt in practice

653
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:59,600
and so part of what we can learn from

654
00:23:56,559 --> 00:24:01,520
this sort of issue of accessibility

655
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,480
overlays is

656
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:06,400
about the comprehensive design processes

657
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,320
that would reduce or eliminate the need

658
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:11,200
for these quick fix solutions to begin

659
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:13,520
with because as i and basically everyone

660
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,279
else in the tech world will tell you

661
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,360
it's much cheaper to solve a problem

662
00:24:15,279 --> 00:24:21,279
from the beginning than it is to go back

663
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:22,720
and try and retrofit a solution later

664
00:24:21,279 --> 00:24:24,320
so part of comprehensive design

665
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:26,640
processes is that you don't just pick

666
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,880
one or two or three things off that list

667
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,000
you actually sit down at the beginning

668
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,120
and you go

669
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,720
let's look at all of these

670
00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:35,760
considerations that we might need to

671
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:38,159
look at things like cost ease of use

672
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:40,880
accessibility security

673
00:24:38,159 --> 00:24:42,640
size of the actual code itself

674
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,200
and build yourself a comprehensive

675
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,360
design plan that addresses all of those

676
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,360
from the beginning it's much easier to

677
00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:51,600
do those things from the start than it

678
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:52,960
is to have to go in later and remediate

679
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,159
it because you'll inevitably find

680
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,159
yourself cutting corners

681
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,880
but in terms of specifically

682
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,559
accessibility there are a few lessons

683
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,640
that would reduce or eliminate the need

684
00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:06,400
for these overlays well the perceived

685
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,600
need for these overlays that probably

686
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,200
doesn't actually exist as well

687
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,039
and the first one is that when you talk

688
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,360
about a lot of modern front-end

689
00:25:13,039 --> 00:25:17,760
frameworks things like react-view

690
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:20,240
angular rails

691
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,679
these are all you know even cms systems

692
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,760
content management systems like

693
00:25:21,679 --> 00:25:25,760
wordpress these are all accessible to

694
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,360
greater or lesser degrees and so the

695
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,799
first thing you can actually do if

696
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:31,440
you're using a framework and you're not

697
00:25:28,799 --> 00:25:32,799
building it from scratch is check

698
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,320
is the framework that you're using

699
00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:36,000
accessible

700
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:38,080
and if it's not

701
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,919
or if you find yourself having to do you

702
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,919
know they have the basic

703
00:25:39,919 --> 00:25:43,840
the basics but you find yourself having

704
00:25:41,919 --> 00:25:45,039
to do a significant amount of manual

705
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,440
work

706
00:25:45,039 --> 00:25:49,520
then look at how do you remediate that

707
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:52,480
can you remediate it once and not have

708
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:54,880
to do it all over your system other

709
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:57,679
pre-existing plug-ins there are actually

710
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,600
a lot for things like wordpress that do

711
00:25:57,679 --> 00:26:01,600
resolve a lot of those accessibility

712
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,640
issues and actually build accessible

713
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:06,400
components for you to build on

714
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,880
and if you go out and do those fixes

715
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,039
yourself can you either release them as

716
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,360
a plug-in or go back to the people who

717
00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:15,279
maintain the framework

718
00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:17,200
and say to them you know this needs to

719
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:19,520
be something you that you can address

720
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,279
here's a pull request that addresses

721
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,600
some of the common issues that we have

722
00:26:21,279 --> 00:26:25,760
accessibility-wise

723
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,760
and the more that we do things like that

724
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,080
the easier accessibility really becomes

725
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:32,480
for everyone because if you start

726
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,840
building with accessible building blocks

727
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,679
the amount of work that you're going to

728
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,760
have to do to remediate those issues

729
00:26:35,679 --> 00:26:39,840
later down the line is not something

730
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,919
that you're going to feel whereas if you

731
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,919
start with a sort of framework that's

732
00:26:41,919 --> 00:26:46,960
inaccessible you're really going to feel

733
00:26:43,919 --> 00:26:49,039
having to resolve it

734
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,640
and even then you know if you've got a

735
00:26:49,039 --> 00:26:52,400
website where it's completely

736
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,640
inaccessible and you've got to solve a

737
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,799
lot of these issues accessibility

738
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,279
overlays are not necessarily the way to

739
00:26:56,799 --> 00:27:01,919
go the best way to go is to look for

740
00:26:59,279 --> 00:27:04,159
some kind of sticking plaster a

741
00:27:01,919 --> 00:27:06,960
temporary solution that only automates

742
00:27:04,159 --> 00:27:08,799
the things that really can be automated

743
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,039
while you take the time to do that

744
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:12,480
remediation work

745
00:27:11,039 --> 00:27:14,880
the other time where those sorts of

746
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:17,279
sticking classes can be really useful is

747
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,279
in the sense of plugins that fix basic

748
00:27:17,279 --> 00:27:21,440
issues with an inaccessible framework

749
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:23,520
but even then you may find it takes a

750
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,440
little bit of work to actually get it

751
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,200
all sorted and you are going to have to

752
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,480
do some manual work on top of that to

753
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,480
make your sites accessible

754
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:35,360
the really sad thing and the heavily

755
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,320
ironic thing

756
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:40,480
about this cautionary tale

757
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:42,559
is that these accessibility overlays

758
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,960
came with one promise and you heard it

759
00:27:42,559 --> 00:27:47,200
with the excerpts that i read out to you

760
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:48,960
we are going to avoid you getting sued

761
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,360
you will not get sued if you use this

762
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,520
framework but as you can see from the

763
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,520
list of lawsuits that adrian roselli has

764
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,600
curated

765
00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:00,720
unfortunately these accessibility quick

766
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,720
fixes have resulted in a paradox of more

767
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,840
and more lawsuits and more and more

768
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,200
complaints

769
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,279
many of them from reputable

770
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,600
organizations like the san francisco

771
00:28:07,279 --> 00:28:11,440
lighthouse for the blind whose real aim

772
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,679
is to ensure

773
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:15,520
that in the spirit and not just the

774
00:28:13,679 --> 00:28:16,720
letter of that disability access

775
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:20,320
legislation

776
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:22,159
that the web is accessible to everyone

777
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,720
we may or may not now have some time for

778
00:28:22,159 --> 00:28:27,440
questions um if we don't i will be

779
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,120
around otherwise my website and email

780
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,399
address are up there so feel free to get

781
00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,320
in contact with me

782
00:28:30,399 --> 00:28:33,840
it's been lovely to talk to you and i do

783
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,000
hope that you've learned something not

784
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,600
just about accessibility but about some

785
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:41,200
of the broader failures in design

786
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,200
thinking that lead us to this point

787
00:28:42,399 --> 00:28:47,200
well thank you dawn that was a great

788
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:49,760
talk uh really interesting

789
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:52,000
nuances in there about how how people

790
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:54,320
are trying to solve this and ultimately

791
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,480
failing um but also some great advice

792
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:59,520
for what we can actually do which which

793
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,919
i think is tremendous um now we we

794
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,760
actually have a question or two um so

795
00:29:01,919 --> 00:29:04,960
thank you for for coming around to the

796
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:08,000
end of the talk where you can answer

797
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:09,760
them um so i'll feed them to you um to

798
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,520
everyone else if you have questions do

799
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,200
drop them into the chat

800
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,520
and then i'll see them usually on a

801
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,919
slight delay after that happens

802
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:19,840
and then so put it in there and then by

803
00:29:17,919 --> 00:29:21,919
the time you ask the question um we'll

804
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:24,559
be so dawn um when you're working with

805
00:29:21,919 --> 00:29:27,279
an existing non-accessible system have

806
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:29,600
you seen drivers other than compliance

807
00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:31,440
that motivate companies to implement any

808
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,799
fixes

809
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,799
oh so i have a whole

810
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:40,799
half talk half rant on this

811
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:42,640
because often it will come down to so so

812
00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:45,360
companies kind of fall into three

813
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,360
buckets you've got companies that don't

814
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,399
really think about it

815
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,000
you've got

816
00:29:48,399 --> 00:29:51,919
companies where the primary driver for

817
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,520
it is compliance and they tend to be the

818
00:29:51,919 --> 00:29:56,080
types of companies that will actually

819
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,799
use these you know accessibility

820
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,679
overlays which are effectively snake oil

821
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:01,279
and

822
00:29:59,679 --> 00:30:03,039
i'm sometimes amazed by what those

823
00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:04,880
companies are like i discovered last

824
00:30:03,039 --> 00:30:07,600
week that there's a disability charity

825
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,520
fairly fairly you know a sizable

826
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:11,360
disability charity charity based out of

827
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,120
victoria that uses one of these products

828
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,320
on their website which is mildly

829
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:17,520
horrifying

830
00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:19,840
the third bucket is

831
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:22,000
companies where there's a

832
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,919
fairly significant internal culture

833
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,760
around accessibility

834
00:30:23,919 --> 00:30:27,360
and that there you tend to be looking at

835
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:30,000
companies with very diverse hiring

836
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,399
practices because you know it's about

837
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,840
one in five people worldwide and so the

838
00:30:32,399 --> 00:30:35,600
chances are if you have a company that

839
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,039
hires well

840
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:39,279
a significant proportion of their

841
00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:40,799
workforce will be disabled and there'll

842
00:30:39,279 --> 00:30:43,120
be another significant proportion of

843
00:30:40,799 --> 00:30:44,880
their workforce that is close to or

844
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,480
deals on a regular basis with other

845
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,080
disabled people

846
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,480
and so they're the ones that tend to

847
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:52,080
have that

848
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,760
non-compliance-based lens of let's

849
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,360
actually look at this in terms of what's

850
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,960
the right thing to do

851
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,960
what's going to get people using our

852
00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,720
website rather than what do we have to

853
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,880
you know what do we have to do to comply

854
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:05,840
with lawsuits 24 7 or whatever that bit

855
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:07,200
of marketing copy copy once

856
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,840
right yeah

857
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:12,159
um so related to that and it sort of

858
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,159
relates to security in some ways um in

859
00:31:12,159 --> 00:31:16,320
into like you sort of alluded to this of

860
00:31:14,159 --> 00:31:18,320
making it easier for ourselves to do

861
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,399
this well and having those fundamental

862
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,840
building blocks that we can we can build

863
00:31:20,399 --> 00:31:24,320
on top of

864
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,640
are there are there particular areas or

865
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,720
like i'm thinking web frameworks or

866
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,440
technologies that lots of people build

867
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,799
on

868
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,679
that we should

869
00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:36,320
kind of all address and maybe use our

870
00:31:33,679 --> 00:31:37,760
leverage and power to get at those

871
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,440
because that will have the greatest

872
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,000
impact are they are there places that we

873
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:44,399
should be focusing yeah

874
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,159
it's primarily by web frameworks as you

875
00:31:44,399 --> 00:31:48,799
said so you're looking at things like

876
00:31:46,159 --> 00:31:51,120
the reacts angular's views of the world

877
00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:53,120
ruby on rails but also content

878
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:55,919
management systems so things like

879
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,320
wordpress if you're using um static site

880
00:31:55,919 --> 00:32:02,799
templating so hugo is one that comes to

881
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:05,120
mind um things like django drupal

882
00:32:02,799 --> 00:32:07,440
basically anything where the

883
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,880
components themselves are already built

884
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,159
into

885
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,600
you know where it's not that you're

886
00:32:10,159 --> 00:32:14,720
building components yourselves out of

887
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,720
raw html where there is some level of

888
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,320
styling or configuration that has gone

889
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,840
into the components

890
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,360
that's where you go if they're open

891
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:24,240
source you go to their maintainers and

892
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,840
you go here is a pull request or if

893
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:29,519
they're not open source you release your

894
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:31,840
plugin as open source um that's where

895
00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:32,880
that's where the bank feel back is

896
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,840
right

897
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,919
um

898
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,440
so one last question uh

899
00:32:35,919 --> 00:32:39,120
it's sort of the end of the day

900
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,960
hopefully this is an easy one for people

901
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:43,440
to take away but what

902
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,600
what is one thing that we could all do

903
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,799
that would improve the situation but

904
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,039
something that

905
00:32:46,799 --> 00:32:50,720
super simple that we can just do as we

906
00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:52,559
go about our every day that will make

907
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,840
life better for everyone else who comes

908
00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:55,279
after us

909
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,760
okay so i'm actually going to give you

910
00:32:55,279 --> 00:33:00,080
two things here one bonus related to the

911
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,120
topic of the talk and one which is not

912
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,519
okay

913
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,519
tell everyone that you know who does web

914
00:33:03,519 --> 00:33:06,799
development do not use accessibility

915
00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:09,600
overlays

916
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:11,679
because as it stands there is not a

917
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:14,240
single product that i feel actually

918
00:33:11,679 --> 00:33:16,799
meets the specifications and in the

919
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,960
sources i have linked a number of videos

920
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:20,559
breaking down a number of products and

921
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,399
spoilers none of them actually do what

922
00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:24,159
they claim to do

923
00:33:22,399 --> 00:33:27,919
but in the broader sense of

924
00:33:24,159 --> 00:33:30,559
accessibility what i would say is

925
00:33:27,919 --> 00:33:32,159
keep pushing and make sure that you have

926
00:33:30,559 --> 00:33:34,000
a way for

927
00:33:32,159 --> 00:33:36,000
an accessible way for people to actually

928
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,399
get accessibility feedback to you about

929
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,320
your product so whether that be

930
00:33:38,399 --> 00:33:42,480
you know that your forums need to be

931
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:44,320
accessible or whether that be that you

932
00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,080
need to not be printing your you know

933
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,760
your phone number on your website needs

934
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,240
to not be in an image and it needs to be

935
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:52,559
somewhere that screen readers can read

936
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:54,159
if you give disabled people a way to

937
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:55,519
actually say hey there are problems

938
00:33:54,159 --> 00:33:57,360
usually they'll be pretty good about it

939
00:33:55,519 --> 00:34:00,000
because they want to access stuff and

940
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:02,159
then take that feedback and action

941
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,360
excellent excellent advice oh we do have

942
00:34:02,159 --> 00:34:07,200
one last bonus question um which is i

943
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,639
won't get you to i i won't get you to

944
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,639
answer all of it because it's to do with

945
00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:12,639
references uh basically is there any

946
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:14,000
recommended reading to better understand

947
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:15,200
how we can make our systems more

948
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,200
accessible

949
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,720
do you have some resources uh that you

950
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,639
could link people to where they can go

951
00:34:18,720 --> 00:34:22,240
and learn some more about this

952
00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,520
yeah the sources

953
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:24,560
if you go right to the bottom of the

954
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,000
sources

955
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,079
there's a section about background

956
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,440
reading which has

957
00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:31,440
some sources that i've recommended

958
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,599
previously and also a previous talk that

959
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,359
i've done which covers many of the

960
00:34:33,599 --> 00:34:36,960
basics of many different types of

961
00:34:35,359 --> 00:34:38,079
accessibility not just for screen

962
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,480
readers

963
00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:41,760
wonderful all right thank you dawn and

964
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:44,079
and thank you for putting all that

965
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,000
effort into a great talk and and like

966
00:34:44,079 --> 00:34:49,119
the captioning and everything was was

967
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,639
tremendous so thank you so much

968
00:34:49,119 --> 00:34:51,760
it's a pleasure

969
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:54,760
um

970
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:54,760
right