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[Music]

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Okay, welcome back for our last talk of

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this session. Uh, let me introduce you

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to Vladimir. He is an IT teacher, an

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awardwinning open-source advocate

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sharing his knowledge with the next

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generation um of software engineers. So,

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let's hand over to Vladimir.

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[Applause]

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Thank you everyone for coming to my

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session. My name is Vladimir. Uh and uh

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can we have a big there's not many of us

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here. So can we have a big round of

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applause to volunteers, presenters and

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organizers for putting the conference

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together.

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It's a massive usually thankless task.

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So uh if you see a volunteer please tell

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them thank you uh and thank you for

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coming uh to Python. The conference is

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here because you are here. So don't

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underestimate your effort of actually

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just coming here. So my name is Vladimir

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and I live in Brisbane

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and I contribute and I teach open source

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among other things. So I have one

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question for you. Did you hear that AI

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is coming to take your job? I don't

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think people in ballroom one heard that.

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So they all went there to give their job

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to AI. But

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uh just imagine what it is to be like a

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student in 2025.

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Anyone student? One, two. Excellent.

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I'll ask that question again. Anyone is

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a teacher? Here we go. More teachers.

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Well done. I think that's the biggest

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amount of teachers I ever had in my

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presentation. So great. Uh

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uh worry not. We're going to tackle it

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and we'll see if actually AI is there to

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do anything good for us or maybe just

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good as saying how many to answering the

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question like how many pies in PyCon.

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Uh just go and ask your favorite chatbot

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if you're interested the answer but

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they're pretty much the same. So and I

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was wondering a couple of years ago a

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slow year I was wondering what is like

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to be a teacher. So I went to uh website

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of the local TA which looks like you're

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going to become a rock star if you go

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there and uh I became a teacher a couple

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of years ago certified teacher. uh

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before that I was doing a private

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sessions for the government and uh big

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companies to for the open source

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technologies for about 10 years but I

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officially received a diploma and I was

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teaching different things certificate

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for introductory diploma for more

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advanced and kind of introduction to

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development advanced diploma which is a

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pure proper development diploma I got a

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very nice and uh cool looking badge Uh

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and from the open source perspective, I

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was teaching things like Python, NodeJS,

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React, C and also Drupal and WordPress.

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I got a cool U workstation and I put my

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tractor calendar to it to make it a bit

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funkier and um it was a simple exchange.

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So TA it's a college subsidized by

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government and uh what they do is they

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actually ask in industry more than

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anyone else is what they can do to

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improve that. So exchange was simple. I

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would give them the industry uh

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experience and feedback and they going

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to give me teaching experience and I

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true believer that developing a habit of

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mentoring others is one of the best ways

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to actually becoming a better developer.

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So today's agenda we're going to talk

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about living the uh in the age of

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generative tools you know as AI. I also

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going to be talking about what I wish I

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learned in uni. uh we're going to talk

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about good development practices and

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we're also going to talk about future of

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Python and open source in academia how

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is it looking okay so the goals are

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how to adapt teaching mentoring and

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learning to new technology trends

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uh also as I said the exchange was given

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industry advice for academia I run my

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own business I do employ people uh

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including developers so I think I'm in a

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good and I did employ students from T.

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So I think it's a good I'm in a good

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position to actually reflect on that and

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we're also going to play some myth

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busters because there's a lot of things

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happen in the industry that kind of

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semi- true half true or not true anyway

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so this sessionful sess session is

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useful for students for teachers and

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mentors and I also would like to give

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some advice for professionals like

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myself so uh 20 years ago I graduated

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from uni and the life was a bit

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different so we used the real life

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libraries. We actually had the books. I

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have one in my backpack but not sure how

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many people do have. Uh G was just

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invented a year ago. There was no

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GitHub. There was no social medias.

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There was no chat bots. Well, openly

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available. Python 2 was only 5 years old

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and Django was just released. um

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famously couple of years before that

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Steve Balmer who was a CEO of the

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company called Microsoft called Linux a

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cancer.

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So things a bit different now 20 years

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in uh we do have uh internet for things

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like books. Uh we do have um things like

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GitHub, we do have things like um GitLab

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and uh we have social media chat bots

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and Junga is at 20 years old. Uh get

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into the with the big boys like uh

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WordPress and Drupal uh in terms of age.

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Uh and things change in the industry as

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well. Microsoft acquired GitHub, the

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biggest uh open source repository in the

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world. And from the recent news,

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Microsoft just open source basic. Um

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that's uh basic for the um Commodore 64,

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the one they used to charge $25,000

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license back in 1978. And they also

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donated document DB which is their

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alternative to MongoDB to uh uh Linux

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foundation I think so yes to the Linux

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foundation so that shows something they

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actually have some technologies they

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don't want to keep supporting open

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source but actually donating them to

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open source so again things are changed

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so I'm sure you have some questions for

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me when we go there so I would like some

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audience participation to keep this a

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bit alive and wake up so when you see

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this sign there are only a few of them

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you can ask me a question. So, let's um

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uh let's practice that. Anyone wants to

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ask me a question?

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Oh, thank you.

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So, uh I I put it together. I dense it

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down to uh six takeaways. Number one is

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open source. Uh open source tools are

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widely used in academia. Python, we use

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Python libraries to teach Python, but

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also other tools that I listed before.

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uh programming languages, frameworks,

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libraries, CMSs, ids and just software

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is actually are way more widespread than

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it was 20 years ago. Uh as I mentioned,

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some of the technologies I taught uh and

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some tools I use, they pretty much all

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open source. Uh which wasn't the case in

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2005 when I we used to get the MSDN

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subscription for Microsoft to install

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Visual Studio as well. I mean it's not

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like uh uh we're using all

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non-proprietary software but I think

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it's a good mix and I'll tell you why.

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Uh the question though I heard from my

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colleagues throughout all my career in

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even back in the uni is why free uh why

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u free and the answer is simple. It's a

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reusability. We don't have to write

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things from scratch. Uh it's giving back

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giving back things that you actually can

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open source and it's testing. you have

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uh a lot of free testers for things like

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Python to go and help. And there are a

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couple of myths hanging around about

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open source. For example, open source is

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not secure. You can see different uh

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news articles lately not really putting

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it together on u open source itself, but

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uh you know things happen and um open

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source been blamed for a few things that

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not necessarily their fault once or

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twice. Uh usually it's a bad practices

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but that's just one of the myths that

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people asking me. Open source is not

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popular which we definitely can say it's

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not true especially when different

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governments are actually saying that we

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will start open sourcing most of the

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platforms. Switzerland did it uh last

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year and open source doesn't pay which

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um I guess Redhead is one of the

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companies that can actually tell you

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that it's not true and it can become a

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great model and that's not just an

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example that's probably one of the most

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popular one. So I like to see that the

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students getting exposed to industry

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tools that might cost a lot of money but

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at the same time they would like to be

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exposed to the alternatives because once

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they hit the market and start working

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like I did uh I wasn't sure what was

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alternative to Microsoft Visual Studio

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for example uh and corals of course it's

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a large competition especially in a

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proprietary vendor software and it's a

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steep learning curve with variable

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quality of documentation uh for open

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source, right? Uh we have great tools

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like um uh visual studio code which is

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free now open source by Microsoft. But I

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also like to give students an

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alternative for example uh PyCharm which

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is software you paid for. Here you go.

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We have some fans of Py Charm. Um

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yeah, which is a great alternative. I

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like Jet Brands. It's my personal

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choice. I don't advocate for it. Uh but

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again, it's something that I would like

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students to know so they can actually go

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and choose what they want. So my

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recommendation if you are a teacher

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advocate open source like tell them

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there are tools you don't have to force

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them to use them but there are tools for

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office management there are tools for

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image manipulation there are tools for

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just plain files they're free and open

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source and just knowledge of that might

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pass you know might go the long way. uh

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advocate by doing actually go and maybe

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read the issue queue. You don't have to

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know to see but it's a good idea to know

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where Python source squad lives so you

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can actually start navigating maybe

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reading the issues what's happening what

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people are doing. It does take time but

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it's also a good practice to have. Play

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mythbusters. If you hear something, make

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sure the person who refers you to

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specific thing like blame open source on

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something has a decent reference or two

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like a good journalism rather than

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seeing some social media post and build

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your portfolio. That's another thing I

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would tell about open source because you

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know uh once you contributing stuff,

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commenting on stuff and just helping out

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you getting some credits one way or

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another. It depends on the industry,

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depends on the technology. Uh but you

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know, not necessarily get GitLab, GitHub

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things, but it's for me as an employer,

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it's a great tool because the first

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thing I'm going to ask a developer I'm

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hiring, what's your GitHub account? I

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don't want to see like activity commits

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every day, but I would like to see what

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00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:34,959
you're interested in or what you

272
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,600
committed.

273
00:11:34,959 --> 00:11:39,839
Right? So number two, source control is

274
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,560
the afterthought. It was afterthought

275
00:11:39,839 --> 00:11:46,000
when I was graduating and these days the

276
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TA curriculum actually doesn't have that

277
00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:50,640
you need to know Git to graduate. So you

278
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:54,640
can graduate without knowing what Git

279
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:56,560
and GitHub is. So it's not a uh

280
00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:58,959
you depending on the teacher you might

281
00:11:56,560 --> 00:12:03,519
never use G as a developer which is I

282
00:11:58,959 --> 00:12:04,959
think is ridiculous. And today uh G is

283
00:12:03,519 --> 00:12:08,079
actually more than source control. We

284
00:12:04,959 --> 00:12:10,240
have tools like git, github, gitlab and

285
00:12:08,079 --> 00:12:12,800
bitbucket from atlassian that actually

286
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:14,560
provide way more things. You can plan,

287
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:17,200
you can do a security scanners

288
00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:18,800
automation. These day they all sell AI

289
00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,440
assistance to actually help you with

290
00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,920
coding. You can actually do coding in

291
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:27,040
your browser as well. So those tools are

292
00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:29,440
great to learn and use either on daily

293
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,839
basis or whatever you can. So the few

294
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:34,160
actions I took is actually I use source

295
00:12:31,839 --> 00:12:36,079
control for each subjects. uh although I

296
00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:39,200
wasn't required as student to download

297
00:12:36,079 --> 00:12:44,079
the code or do do a g clone or at least

298
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:45,839
familiarize themselves with u interface

299
00:12:44,079 --> 00:12:48,880
for example all the task I was putting

300
00:12:45,839 --> 00:12:51,360
in I was putting in in g uh so they can

301
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:53,360
actually go and start uh familiarizing

302
00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:54,880
yourself with the interface uh and I

303
00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,399
also do for the last three years I do

304
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,720
annual address to the students that's

305
00:12:56,399 --> 00:13:00,560
one of them I think that's last year so

306
00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,639
I basically talk about similar things

307
00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:04,800
but just with the student focus on why

308
00:13:02,639 --> 00:13:06,720
they need to know that rather than try

309
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,360
to jump uh on you know just a

310
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:11,120
proprietary tools and few

311
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,720
recommendations if you haven't used

312
00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,880
source code or you know someone who

313
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,360
doesn't ask them to create an account

314
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:19,360
make sure they use it often for example

315
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:20,639
just uh create a you know monthly

316
00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:22,560
routine saying what's new with the

317
00:13:20,639 --> 00:13:24,560
python if there's something change or

318
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,560
Django or something like that you use

319
00:13:24,560 --> 00:13:28,560
read release notes some release notes

320
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:32,079
are bad but some release notes are very

321
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:33,920
good uh for example uh here's what's new

322
00:13:32,079 --> 00:13:37,040
in Python Who read that when the new

323
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,639
Python is released? Few people. That's

324
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,880
good.

325
00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:42,880
Uh, one of my favorite example is

326
00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,959
Bootstrap. They put a blog, they put a

327
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,639
good release notes on GitHub and it's

328
00:13:44,959 --> 00:13:48,959
actually a good read. It's very

329
00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:51,040
non-technical. I mean, unless that

330
00:13:48,959 --> 00:13:53,839
specific task goes very technical. It's

331
00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:56,079
a front-end framework, but it's a very

332
00:13:53,839 --> 00:13:57,920
good example like industry standard of

333
00:13:56,079 --> 00:14:01,120
how to write your release notes. So, you

334
00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:03,360
actually know what's happening.

335
00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:05,440
uh peruse issues. So if you go to

336
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,360
Python, I haven't used C for 20

337
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,120
something years, right? And the Python

338
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:10,800
is actually written in C, but I can

339
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:13,199
actually go and start looking what are

340
00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:15,120
the issues are. They're not necessarily

341
00:14:13,199 --> 00:14:18,560
uh you need to know C to actually go and

342
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:21,360
contribute back to Python. Uh Django,

343
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:24,240
similar thing although those issues are

344
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,920
just links from the other system. So I

345
00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,560
actually start familiarizing myself. Oh,

346
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:30,399
Django actually used differentiq. How

347
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:34,240
can I do that? Oh, okay. So it is a

348
00:14:30,399 --> 00:14:35,760
tracker. So um then uh if I want to

349
00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,600
contribute more, I'll go and start

350
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,360
familiarize myself with documentation,

351
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,360
developer guides and stuff like that. Is

352
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:44,000
it easy to read? If it's not easy to

353
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:47,040
read, how can I contribute more to that?

354
00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:49,760
And basically every system, open source

355
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:52,800
system and contribute uh Docker,

356
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:55,360
Bootstrap, WordPress, they all have

357
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,680
first timers issues. So if you go to

358
00:14:55,360 --> 00:15:01,760
Python, there's actually an easy tag.

359
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:04,079
You can click on easy tag and uh yeah

360
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,639
you can see the easy stuff and things

361
00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:08,959
like uh doc glossery alphabetical order

362
00:15:06,639 --> 00:15:12,000
is only for English right something for

363
00:15:08,959 --> 00:15:13,519
multilingual audience um there's some

364
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,279
things not documented so you can

365
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:17,120
actually go and start looking at the

366
00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:20,000
issue and maybe start contributing

367
00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:22,320
without even writing the C code same

368
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:24,560
goes for Django there is a link in easy

369
00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:27,199
peing so you can go and see the Django

370
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,360
issue familiarize yourself and see there

371
00:15:27,199 --> 00:15:31,519
also a bunch of documentation or easy

372
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:33,360
JavaScript fixes or something like that

373
00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:36,639
that you can actually go and contribute

374
00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:38,480
back maybe it affects you that's how I

375
00:15:36,639 --> 00:15:40,639
started contributing it actually I found

376
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,600
the bug and try to contribute back but

377
00:15:40,639 --> 00:15:46,240
if you are familiar with the process it

378
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:47,920
becomes much easier rather than you know

379
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,160
starting from scratch where you feel

380
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:52,800
like a student again uh and all the

381
00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,600
systems I mentioned uh have similar but

382
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:59,920
similar stuff for example uh WordPress

383
00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:03,040
has a good First bug tag

384
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:06,160
number three, documentation rules.

385
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:09,199
Reading is a skills that we are losing.

386
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:11,199
Uh this year people read less books than

387
00:16:09,199 --> 00:16:13,519
last year and way less books than they

388
00:16:11,199 --> 00:16:15,519
read 10 years ago. Uh we can go into

389
00:16:13,519 --> 00:16:18,000
details and it's not necessarily you

390
00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:20,959
know uh one way to look at things but

391
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:23,600
that's a reality. And I have a person

392
00:16:20,959 --> 00:16:26,160
coming to me at the WordPress meetup and

393
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,839
saying where can I learn WordPress? I

394
00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,759
was like well that's a very broad topic

395
00:16:27,839 --> 00:16:31,199
but I would recommend to concentrate on

396
00:16:29,759 --> 00:16:32,560
one of those books and they just

397
00:16:31,199 --> 00:16:35,440
interrupted me and say I don't read

398
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:37,600
books like literally the person said to

399
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,519
me I don't read books without even you

400
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:42,320
know trying or doing that that's the

401
00:16:39,519 --> 00:16:44,800
reality we're living in. Uh another

402
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:46,639
thing is quality documentation is rare

403
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:49,519
especially for open source project

404
00:16:46,639 --> 00:16:52,560
that's a lot of investment for not much

405
00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:54,399
of feedback. So uh reviewing

406
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,800
documentation these days should not be

407
00:16:54,399 --> 00:17:01,279
an afterthought. But again it all comes

408
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:05,199
to the point where do actually have time

409
00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:07,679
and budget to do that but successful

410
00:17:05,199 --> 00:17:10,000
projects do have good documentation.

411
00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:11,679
Python is one of them. Uh Django as

412
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,520
well.

413
00:17:11,679 --> 00:17:15,039
So I I recommend to go through that

414
00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,919
checklist when you're actually thinking

415
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:20,400
about documentation either pro uh

416
00:17:17,919 --> 00:17:22,640
private for private project or for

417
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:25,839
public. I treat them all the same. I

418
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,520
actually not allowing uh merger request

419
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:29,919
anymore without documentation in the

420
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,080
code. Is your documentation easy to

421
00:17:29,919 --> 00:17:34,320
find, easy to understand? Is it easy to

422
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,160
reference, easy to follow, and easy to

423
00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,840
share? As a teacher, I would like to

424
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,080
have a piece of documentation and pass

425
00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,480
it on someone who can follow it and do

426
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:45,679
it properly rather than reading it and

427
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,679
not understanding a thing.

428
00:17:45,679 --> 00:17:49,039
Contributing the same thing even easier

429
00:17:47,679 --> 00:17:52,240
than contributing the code contributing

430
00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:55,039
documentation easier easier uh kind of

431
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:57,440
it's not necessarily the thing to refer

432
00:17:55,039 --> 00:18:00,320
to and compare documentation to a code.

433
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:02,799
But I find that you know helping

434
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:04,080
documentation uh there's less people

435
00:18:02,799 --> 00:18:05,760
contribute to documentation than

436
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,840
contributing to code for the open source

437
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,520
project.

438
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:11,360
So it's easy when to start when

439
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:13,039
contributing is actually documentation.

440
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:15,280
There are guides for Python and for

441
00:18:13,039 --> 00:18:16,880
Django to do that. There's a minimal

442
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:19,440
technical knowledge required to start

443
00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:21,919
reviewing. For example is getting

444
00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:25,360
started page make sense or can be

445
00:18:21,919 --> 00:18:27,760
improved for you as a firsttime reader.

446
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:30,880
And the reality is it is always gets

447
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:34,000
neglected. I big contributor to Drupal

448
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:36,160
and one of our things is uh

449
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:39,840
documentation. It's not very good. And

450
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:42,640
guess what's AI models are reading and

451
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,720
getting trained on? Yes. So

452
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,480
recommendations read and try to follow

453
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:49,440
the documentation.

454
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:52,799
Uh update it if you can and write

455
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:54,400
tutorials. If you wrote a tutorial and

456
00:18:52,799 --> 00:18:57,440
you think it's a good documentation,

457
00:18:54,400 --> 00:19:01,120
just contribute it back. It's actually a

458
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,720
way good way to recycle your tutorials.

459
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:05,120
Some systems allows you to put a

460
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:07,120
reference to your original uh tutorial,

461
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:09,919
but you know, it depends on the system.

462
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:11,919
Again, again, uh check the Django

463
00:19:09,919 --> 00:19:14,880
documentation. It's pretty good. There's

464
00:19:11,919 --> 00:19:16,960
also a way to get help in in case of

465
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,960
Python. It's a Discord. So, join the

466
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:21,039
Discord if you have question. There are

467
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:23,360
always good people there to help you

468
00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:25,200
with uh even basic introductory question

469
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:29,280
and I always tell the students remember

470
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:32,240
there are no bad questions. Uh symfony

471
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,520
fast track it's a great book I show as a

472
00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,400
good example of introduction to

473
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,559
technology. uh I translated it into

474
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,039
different into different language but uh

475
00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:43,600
I found this one of the best books uh

476
00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:45,200
which is free and available and

477
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,280
apparently Laravel documentation which

478
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:50,720
is PHP framework is another good example

479
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:53,520
of uh documentation and people do show

480
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,360
the um saying that it's one of the best

481
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,280
documentations online for the open

482
00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,880
source project is also something to

483
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,880
reference I always like to reference

484
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:03,520
different projects when I see something

485
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,679
very good and kind of cross pollinate

486
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,679
with others

487
00:20:05,679 --> 00:20:10,679
So I know you have more questions for

488
00:20:07,679 --> 00:20:10,679
me.

489
00:20:12,559 --> 00:20:17,760
Ah I already basically covered it. Uh

490
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:20,160
but that's a good question. So let's

491
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:21,919
talk about reliance on generative tools.

492
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,840
They sometimes awful called

493
00:20:21,919 --> 00:20:26,559
intelligence. People say they're here to

494
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:29,440
stay. Um a lot of people refer to them

495
00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:32,159
as not sustainable. Uh but also one

496
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:35,679
thing is G in GPT for example stands for

497
00:20:32,159 --> 00:20:37,840
generative. So I had a few examples with

498
00:20:35,679 --> 00:20:42,000
uh students

499
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:44,640
uh doing good and bad things with uh

500
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:47,039
things for example tic-tac-toe someone

501
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:49,520
build it from scratch we were doing

502
00:20:47,039 --> 00:20:52,480
object-oriented programming and asked

503
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:54,880
what uh where is show me your class they

504
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,760
didn't know what class was but they had

505
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:59,840
a running software someone copied the

506
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:03,039
answer including when you ask something

507
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:05,280
chat GPT it replies to certainly uh So

508
00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:07,679
they copied certainly as well and uh put

509
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:10,240
the answer in the assignment. Uh

510
00:21:07,679 --> 00:21:12,240
security best practices as well. So GPT

511
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,799
tools are not very good at analyzing

512
00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:17,440
your code and making it more secure.

513
00:21:14,799 --> 00:21:18,720
Good examples uh uh VS code

514
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:20,640
documentation. Someone didn't know how

515
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,559
to configure things in their ID. They

516
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,760
just went and asked chat GPT and follow

517
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:29,679
the example. Um creating quizzes. Some

518
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:32,400
students uh just uh had the curriculum

519
00:21:29,679 --> 00:21:34,799
and they ask the I think they asked

520
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,440
Gemini to kind of use their notes to

521
00:21:34,799 --> 00:21:40,320
summarize it and to build the quizzes

522
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:42,720
for them 10 question quiz every week and

523
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,880
I think that was pretty impressive and

524
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:47,360
uh if you're not subscribed to hard fork

525
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,919
the podcast by New York Times the latest

526
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:52,720
the latest podcast is about actual

527
00:21:49,919 --> 00:21:55,760
education and it has much more examples

528
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:59,280
of where student uh rely rely on things.

529
00:21:55,760 --> 00:22:02,159
So hard fork uh I would highly recommend

530
00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:04,320
uh the podcast. So the last episode is

531
00:22:02,159 --> 00:22:06,320
about education. Okay. So my personal

532
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,840
reflection is they are okay to use. I

533
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,919
actually encourage student to use them.

534
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,880
They're very bad at analysis especially

535
00:22:09,919 --> 00:22:15,440
analysis of large uh open source project

536
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,919
and they're very bad at refactoring uh

537
00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:20,080
of they do sometimes do good things but

538
00:22:17,919 --> 00:22:22,559
in majority of cases I tend to spend

539
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,480
more time with them if I'll try to rely

540
00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:26,080
on the tools. And there are a couple of

541
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,600
philosophical questions I kind of

542
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,280
gathered over the last couple of years.

543
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,039
Am I hiring a software engineer or

544
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:33,520
prompt engineer? That was the first

545
00:22:31,039 --> 00:22:35,120
question when they just appeared. Uh

546
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,960
building industry has to follow the

547
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:38,400
government regulation but we as IT we

548
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,559
don't. We don't have unions. We don't

549
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:42,480
have anything. So when it comes to the

550
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:44,799
regulations, yeah, it's kind of personal

551
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,640
choice and ethics which I don't think we

552
00:22:44,799 --> 00:22:48,640
have enough in IT industry. But again,

553
00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:50,720
this is something to answer for

554
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,120
yourself. And the last one I heard

555
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:55,760
actually from that podcast with um one

556
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:57,919
of the professors he said uh if if we're

557
00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:02,240
telling now that the prompt engineers

558
00:22:57,919 --> 00:23:04,799
will replace uh will replace um

559
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:08,720
developers how quickly do we think the

560
00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:11,280
prompt engineers will be replaced by AI.

561
00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,360
So uh a few things uh AI detection

562
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:16,080
miserably failed over the last two years

563
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:17,760
in academia. Uh there's too many false

564
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,280
positive and student not very happy and

565
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:22,159
teachers not very happy. So a lot of the

566
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,880
tools was scraped and uh there are a few

567
00:23:22,159 --> 00:23:26,559
things I found are good for AI to

568
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,440
battle. Group assignments, pair

569
00:23:26,559 --> 00:23:31,200
development and code reviews are great

570
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:36,080
uh using real life examples. For

571
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:38,640
example, I got a real um tender for uh

572
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:42,320
great barrier reef report and just

573
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:45,280
depending on what sort of stuff uh they

574
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,559
were doing like WordPress or Django, I

575
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,679
just asked them to do different things

576
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:51,039
from this report and I thought and I

577
00:23:49,679 --> 00:23:55,520
thought it was great. But the basic

578
00:23:51,039 --> 00:24:00,080
tender was converting this um multiund

579
00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:02,159
multiund page PDFs into web. Uh and

580
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,760
there is also like platforms like tender

581
00:24:02,159 --> 00:24:05,919
Victoria has builtin for Victoria

582
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:09,200
tenders you can go and download those

583
00:24:05,919 --> 00:24:11,600
tenders and see which you can actually

584
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,679
so you can introduce students to the

585
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,200
real life projects straight into uni

586
00:24:13,679 --> 00:24:17,360
which I don't think that happens often

587
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,360
we used to write everything from scratch

588
00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:20,640
but I think it's a time for us to

589
00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:24,080
actually give them the real life

590
00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,760
examples and introduce them that so uh

591
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:29,279
and open source contribution as I

592
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:31,760
mentioned is a great thing to have I

593
00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:33,200
just go to the issue cues. So ability to

594
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:35,520
read I already mentioned on that I

595
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:38,240
quickly skip through that. So I find

596
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:40,080
that students are bad at reading errors

597
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,919
but lately I found my clients are really

598
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,240
bad at reading emails as well. So I

599
00:24:41,919 --> 00:24:46,559
think we all as a humanity kind of

600
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,200
reading less and less even we can't read

601
00:24:46,559 --> 00:24:51,360
an error as a student then we learn how

602
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,760
to read an error improve on it and do

603
00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:56,559
better. But again reading is something

604
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,480
that I would recommend. So uh few

605
00:24:56,559 --> 00:25:02,240
recommendations start lesson with uh

606
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:04,240
code uh introduce um find an error

607
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,000
exercise and read books. One of the

608
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:08,480
books I would recommend is the power of

609
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,400
one uh blowing the whistle on Facebook

610
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:13,200
which does talk about a lot of education

611
00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:16,159
and it's about by yeah Francis Hogan and

612
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:18,480
she worked in Yahoo, Google and then

613
00:25:16,159 --> 00:25:20,640
Facebook. So it's I think it's a quite

614
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,440
an interesting book about the industry

615
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:26,080
and education as well. attend industry

616
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:27,360
events like we're at the conference so I

617
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,520
already asked if you're a teacher and

618
00:25:27,360 --> 00:25:31,039
students so sometimes it's hard for

619
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,799
students to attend the conference but

620
00:25:31,039 --> 00:25:34,880
there are other things to do there are

621
00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:37,360
cheaper conferences like DDD all over

622
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:40,480
Australia there are meetups there is

623
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:42,559
gaff hack that you can attend so uh you

624
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:45,520
can watch videos online you can promote

625
00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:47,440
local meetups and attend local meetups

626
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,360
as well for example in Brisbane we have

627
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:54,880
Python meetup you can present and meet

628
00:25:49,360 --> 00:25:57,360
up as a as the uh volunteer or yeah uh

629
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,520
and tell us what that you learn as a

630
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:01,360
student or as a teacher. Let's let's

631
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,760
summarize. So for the students I would

632
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:06,000
say be curious, build your portfolio,

633
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:08,080
get into open source early and attend

634
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,880
the local events. For teachers and

635
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:13,039
mentors, help students to work with new

636
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:15,120
tools, contribute to open source and

637
00:26:13,039 --> 00:26:16,960
present at local events. And for my

638
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:19,360
colleagues in IT, I say present at

639
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:22,000
definitely at any event if you can

640
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:24,320
promote your skills, use your experience

641
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:28,000
and teach people what you wish you'd

642
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:30,559
learn when um you were in uni or in

643
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:33,039
school. Uh cross-promote your skills as

644
00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:34,799
well. If you think something is better

645
00:26:33,039 --> 00:26:36,720
that you're currently using, just get it

646
00:26:34,799 --> 00:26:38,799
out there. It can be a five minute

647
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:42,400
presentation at the meetup, but just do

648
00:26:38,799 --> 00:26:44,159
it. So and hopefully we can all improve

649
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,960
the situation which we currently found

650
00:26:44,159 --> 00:26:48,320
ourselves in where at the moment PhDs

651
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,919
enrollment currently in decline

652
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,919
Australia.

653
00:26:49,919 --> 00:26:54,640
Thank you very much. Uh I'm not sure if

654
00:26:51,919 --> 00:26:56,720
we have time for questions. Uh but if

655
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,880
not find me after the session I will be

656
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:02,039
hanging around. Uh yeah and thank you

657
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,039
for listening.

658
00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:08,799
We have time for like one or two

659
00:27:05,919 --> 00:27:12,440
questions if anyone has a burning

660
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:12,440
question right now.

661
00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:16,120
Nope. Yes.

662
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,919
Thank you. That's a fantastic tour.

663
00:27:19,919 --> 00:27:23,520
Thanks Vladimir. Um as a student and

664
00:27:21,919 --> 00:27:24,880
someone who also teaches as well, it's

665
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,080
really good to get both sides of that

666
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,840
from someone. So thank you very much for

667
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,400
that. We talked a lot about generative

668
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:33,760
AI and as a student the the compulsion

669
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,360
to then go and use it. Um but firstly do

670
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,279
do you really blame students one

671
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:38,559
categorically for for using a tool that

672
00:27:37,279 --> 00:27:40,559
does talk back to them and interacts

673
00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:42,960
with what they're saying in a way that

674
00:27:40,559 --> 00:27:44,720
is is quite humanlike and its nature in

675
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:46,320
the way it can explain things back to

676
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,159
them. But further don't you think

677
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:50,080
there's also room in the errors of the

678
00:27:48,159 --> 00:27:52,640
languages themselves to be clearer and

679
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:55,200
planer? Pi Python has a quite um

680
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:57,039
readable um error handling mechanism

681
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,520
that does tell quite explicitly what the

682
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:01,120
problems is as does rust but uh I'm

683
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,520
unfortunately the victim of some C#

684
00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:05,200
andnet which is uh less forgiving in

685
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,640
that space. Um did you have any thoughts

686
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:10,640
on that?

687
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:12,559
Sure. Uh yeah so presenter here before I

688
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,960
think two sessions before that she said

689
00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:16,720
u I only can speak from the experience

690
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,480
because I have 10 years of experience

691
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:22,880
and I think it's a brilliant phrase to

692
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:26,399
have. So uh uh we do need an experience

693
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:28,399
uh regardless of um where we are. And to

694
00:28:26,399 --> 00:28:30,799
answer about tools, I do encourage to

695
00:28:28,399 --> 00:28:32,880
use any tools they can even if cheat if

696
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:34,880
they can like I mean I mean I'm not

697
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:37,360
promoting it but this is a way of

698
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,279
hacking the system. This is a way why a

699
00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:41,440
lot of us actually learn how to do

700
00:28:39,279 --> 00:28:43,279
things just to get around things. So I

701
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,200
really encourage and I would like to see

702
00:28:43,279 --> 00:28:46,799
that happening because for us it's also

703
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,000
a way to learn. If you stop learning

704
00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:51,360
you're not really a good teacher

705
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:53,279
anymore. So I think uh and the students

706
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,799
again from if you listen to this podcast

707
00:28:53,279 --> 00:28:57,600
in the end they actually recorded the

708
00:28:54,799 --> 00:28:59,279
students how they use uh the tools

709
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:02,720
differently. I think it's amazing

710
00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:04,640
because we as a teachers can learn way

711
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,240
more from the from the students because

712
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,799
they're much better at using the new

713
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,799
technologies than we are. And I think

714
00:29:08,799 --> 00:29:13,919
this crosspollination would always be

715
00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:16,240
there. again uh I can see a lot of I I

716
00:29:13,919 --> 00:29:18,799
think we as a humans as well very good

717
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,880
at scaring saying that's it we don't

718
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:23,200
need any more developers but that's not

719
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:27,039
necessarily true so I think experience

720
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:29,279
is great the best example I can give is

721
00:29:27,039 --> 00:29:31,200
uh you know people start learning Python

722
00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:32,559
start learning NodeJS and they have an

723
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,399
error and they raise a hand and say I

724
00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:35,760
have an error which error they're like

725
00:29:34,399 --> 00:29:38,640
I'm not sure I was like can you read it

726
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:41,200
for me so you sit with them and you

727
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,880
teach them how to read an error the

728
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,080
Second time they raise a hand that say I

729
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,840
have an error and I was like what is

730
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,600
this? And this time they read an error

731
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,360
but they didn't analyze it. So you teach

732
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,200
them how to analyze an error. And the

733
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:54,720
third time they raise the hand and say

734
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:56,880
ah I think I think I found I think I

735
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:58,799
know how to fix the issue. And when you

736
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,600
see this progress is like that's what

737
00:29:58,799 --> 00:30:04,000
inspiring me to teach more because this

738
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:06,880
process yes it's handling. how one of my

739
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:09,840
managers said on a project you know like

740
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:11,600
art of it is you have to find

741
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,000
responsible for the mistake you have to

742
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:18,080
push them under a bus but then you have

743
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:20,320
to have to uh have to lie with them get

744
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:22,799
up and fix it as a team so I think it's

745
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:24,720
a collective effort and as individual we

746
00:30:22,799 --> 00:30:26,720
only can do that much as a team we can

747
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:28,080
do way more

748
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,000
well thank you very much uh

749
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:33,440
thank you can we all give our speaker

750
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:36,600
another round of applause here is your

751
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,600
If you